A new gravity wheel design?

[raj]

Seasonal greetings to all forum members.
They say ' A picture is worth a thousand words.'
IS a drawing worth as much?
If yes, what do you make of my new gravity wheel drawings below?
Let us hear from you.
Raj

[path_finder]

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 5325#55325
For a real work, the detour ramp must be NOT linked to the central axis.

[raj]

A thousand thanks, Path_finder.
I just finished reading your link topic for two hours non-stop, and I only reached the fourth page.

What an EYE-OPENER for me. Thanks friend.

I found that your main problem in your design was 'How to move the weights from the outside 4 0'clock to the inner 6 o'clock position inside the wheel, and you proposed several ways of achieving that.

In my design the weights change orbits from 4 o'clock to 6 o'clock positions by resting/rolling/moving with the rotating wheels.

My design consists of a drum wheel(1) with inner rims(2). A smaller open cylindrical wheel (4)of same diameter as the inner rims(2) hangs/swings/rotates on eight strings/cords(5) attached to eight points on the inner rims at 45 degrees intervals, starting from 12 0'clock positions of the wheels.
Eight weights(6) hang/swing on strings/cords(7) from eight points on open cylindrical wheel's rims at 45 degrees intervals starting from the 12 o'clock position of the wheel.

The path of the weights is as follows:
Starting from the 12 o'clock position, the weight hangs on string(7), on the hanging open cylindrical wheel, on the descending side upto 4 o'clock position where it comes to rest on the inner rims of the inner rims of the larger wheel, and the weight move together with the wheels upto the 6 o'clock position.
At the 6 o'clock position, the weights get hooked to a peg, and stay in a fixed position on the open cylindrical wheel and move together with it back to the 12 o'clock position.

Because of the way the drum wheel and the open cylindrical wheels are connected, they rotate at the same speed.

Can you now visualise the design differently?

[to.late]

Seasonal greetings to all forum members.
They say ' A picture is worth a thousand words.'
IS a drawing worth as much?
If yes, what do you make of my new gravity wheel drawings below?
Let us hear from you.
Raj

Raj,
I did an actual build of a similar design.
I allowed gravity to move the weights inward towards the axle and away from it keeping friction/resistence to a minimum.

[AB Hammer]

Greetings Raj

Here is the version I did. It didn't work but there is a lot to learn from it.

[to.late]

Seasonal greetings to all forum members.
They say ' A picture is worth a thousand words.'
IS a drawing worth as much?
If yes, what do you make of my new gravity wheel drawings below?
Let us hear from you.
Raj

Raj,
This is the wheel I built first. I tried different, specific things.
As with the attached drwaing, I allowed an arm to advance lifting the weight at bottom center.
I also tried longer slots of various designs. I even tried using weighted levers to move the primary weights.
Myself, I believe doing builds such as these based on specific engineering guidelines has helped me to understand how Bessler built his.
It is possible that Bessler realised the only way to accomplish a perpetual wheel.

[path_finder]

Dear to.late,
Why do not show a more complete explanation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjzgKxDVfIA
http://www.youtube.com/user/wh0wants2kn0w

[AB Hammer]

Ouch! path_finder Ouch!

[to.late]

Dear to.late,
Why do not show a more complete explanation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjzgKxDVfIA
http://www.youtube.com/user/wh0wants2kn0w

path_finder,
>>Why do not show a more complete explanation?<<
The threads detailing my work were deleted because of abusive behavior by another forum member. There is much math involved.
When I am ready, I can always build. But as things are, I am not a politician running for office.

[raj]

Thank you all for your contribution.
I now solicit your reflected answer to this question:
As per my explanation above, will the weight, resting on/moving with the inner rims of the drum wheel from the 4 o'clock to 6 o'clock position, provide any torque to the wheel?
A point to remember is that while the weight rest on/ move with the inner rims, it is being tethered and pulled by string(7) attached to the open cylindrical wheel, which is also rotating at the same speed.
Regards.
Raj

[AB Hammer]

Raj

On your descending side you truly only have 2 weights in action. The one at noon is null and the one at 6 is null. I have removed the same to weights on my wheel and no difference, It still sat there. Using the outer drum will be a drag that will fight against you (friction strain) and weight position will be of no help. Look closer, I hope you can see this. Use direct gravity lines to add them up. What you will have to do to make this work is to somehow pull up the weight before the 11:00 position to get that weight into the action on the descending side. Then and only then will you get overbalance.

This is my full analyzes of this approach, and what is needed to make it work.

Good luck
Alan

[to.late]

Raj,
A diagram would be helpful.
The amount of torque or force a weight has on a wheel can be factored using trigonometry.

[raj]

Kindly look at my design again, and you will see a double wheels balancing features.
1. the open cylindrical wheel hangs on strings on the inner rims of the drum wheel and balances/unbalances the drum wheel when it swings.
2. Weights hang on strings inside the open cylindrical wheel, and the changing positions of the weights balance/unbalance the open cylindrical wheel.
If you look at the design ( which is presumably at rest position), you will notice that either the drum wheel is unbalanced or the open cylindrical wheel is unbalanced.
To me, both wheels look unbalanced, (1) because the centre of mass of the open cylindrical wheel is further from its centre, which makes it unbalanced and (2) because of previous reason, the open cylindrical wheel will tend to swing on one side, making the drum wheel unbalanced on the same side.
At least, one wheel or the other wheel will be in an unbalanced state at any given time, providing torque for it to rotate, and since both wheel are connected by strings, they will rotate together.

Can you now appreciate my analysis?
Raj

[AB Hammer]

Raj

When the weight is hanging the effects of the weight is at its fulcrum, but when the weight is at the edge it effect is at the edge. I understand your drum idea but you may have to build it to see the stress friction, I have already seen in my own attempts with similar thinking. Look at the V builds that expand one side of the wheel and compress the other. These have a similar stress friction problems. You have a good line of thinking from other designs you have shown. All and all only the build can tell us if we are correct and teach us what goes wrong.

I also appreciate your self analysis, but we almost always do our analysis in our own favor. It is human nature and we must learn to do both in and out of our favor to get the most honest result.

Good luck
Alan

[to.late]

Raj,
What you are missing is when the weight is hanging, it's force is at that position.
The important part that is missed is when it lands on the outside edge, it's position is advanced.
This is why those types of designs fail. Over balance is lost when the weight shifts position. This is why I used a different design that allowed the weight to generate force the entire time it is on the over balanced side. Thus, no wasted motion/force.
But these things can be understood by using trigonometry and algebra and engineering. As a person builds employing engineering, his base of knowledge will grow exponentially.
If I remember correctly, AB Hammer says his nickname is Copernicus for his abilities in math. He should have no problem at all with this.
Good Luck Raj :-)