KE PE and torque effect?
Moderator: scott
re: KE PE and torque effect?
Gday Raj. Just a note on your top drawing. The weight on the left is moving vertically. Even though it is slight, the one on right drops down an incline. Before you build your wheel, build a simple test rig with this movement to confirm your thoughts.
There is a point about half way where a little more CW will give you CW torque, and a little more CCW will give you CCW torque. In terms of energy, the Left weight loses more PE at the bottom (more leverage), and less PE at the top (less leverage).
Good luck.
There is a point about half way where a little more CW will give you CW torque, and a little more CCW will give you CCW torque. In terms of energy, the Left weight loses more PE at the bottom (more leverage), and less PE at the top (less leverage).
Good luck.
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re: KE PE and torque effect?
Hi raj ,
On page one of this topic the drawing of the 2 wheels with same weights lifting as faling .There is a small discrepency that no one mentioned , ( I don't know why not ) if you look at the drawing below , ABC is a triangle , AC is not the same distance as AB , which you claim is the same . In a small wheel it is small , but as the wheel get's bigger the difference between the 2 will get bigger also .
On page one of this topic the drawing of the 2 wheels with same weights lifting as faling .There is a small discrepency that no one mentioned , ( I don't know why not ) if you look at the drawing below , ABC is a triangle , AC is not the same distance as AB , which you claim is the same . In a small wheel it is small , but as the wheel get's bigger the difference between the 2 will get bigger also .
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re: KE PE and torque effect?
Dear Daano,
The drawing below should explain my point.
Raj
The drawing below should explain my point.
Raj
Keep learning till the end.
Only considering that image, extra work has to be done to get from A to C. That weight has to go faster than the angular velocity of the wheel. Theoretically there's no work when first moving from A to B, then from B to C.
add: Moving horizontally, is (IMHO) a useless exercise anyway (tried to point that out in my topic "Importance of raising weights"). Even when one would export a ball-weight out of the wheel, let it glide horizontally and reintroduce that thing into the wheel again at another radius.
add: Moving horizontally, is (IMHO) a useless exercise anyway (tried to point that out in my topic "Importance of raising weights"). Even when one would export a ball-weight out of the wheel, let it glide horizontally and reintroduce that thing into the wheel again at another radius.
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
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re: KE PE and torque effect?
Hi raj ,
I think the lh weight will not go where you think it will go , it will end short of the 9 o'clock line .
I think the lh weight will not go where you think it will go , it will end short of the 9 o'clock line .
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re: KE PE and torque effect?
The drawing below is 2 piont's on a disk that travel the same distance but do not rise vertically the same distance .
This was used in older type aircraft to have differential aileron controll , where the up going aileron would go into a low pressure area and not have the same effect on the aircraft as the aileron going down into a high pressure area .
If both aileron's would move the same distance the aircraft would yaw to the side of the aileron going down .
This was used in older type aircraft to have differential aileron controll , where the up going aileron would go into a low pressure area and not have the same effect on the aircraft as the aileron going down into a high pressure area .
If both aileron's would move the same distance the aircraft would yaw to the side of the aileron going down .
re: KE PE and torque effect?
Hello Marchello and Daano,
Kindly look at the very firsr post on this thread, I started about four years ago.
The point I was trying to make then was this:
What if, in a rotating wheel/s system, two opposite identical weights were FORCED to move/swing and CHANGE orbital paths around the main axle, going up and down SAME HEIGHT???
I had not explained how the orbital change could be done. I was just questioning what if this could be done, would it provide TORQUE for an OB wheel system.
It was meant to be a brainteaser for forum members.
My last gravity wheel design on my 'MAYDAY' thread is my proposal as to how this orbital weight change could be done.
Raj
Kindly look at the very firsr post on this thread, I started about four years ago.
The point I was trying to make then was this:
What if, in a rotating wheel/s system, two opposite identical weights were FORCED to move/swing and CHANGE orbital paths around the main axle, going up and down SAME HEIGHT???
I had not explained how the orbital change could be done. I was just questioning what if this could be done, would it provide TORQUE for an OB wheel system.
It was meant to be a brainteaser for forum members.
My last gravity wheel design on my 'MAYDAY' thread is my proposal as to how this orbital weight change could be done.
Raj
Keep learning till the end.
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re: KE PE and torque effect?
Hi raj ,
Understood , but side with path_finder .
Understood , but side with path_finder .
re: KE PE and torque effect?
Daano,
In my gravity wheel concept on my 'MAYDAY' thread, the weights are not expected to follow their orbit/path in and out of the rim, as Path_Finder assumed.
I am trying to force the swinging weights to follow roughly the path (in red circle) around the axle of the wheel.
I must admit I am not sure if it will work.
Raj
In my gravity wheel concept on my 'MAYDAY' thread, the weights are not expected to follow their orbit/path in and out of the rim, as Path_Finder assumed.
I am trying to force the swinging weights to follow roughly the path (in red circle) around the axle of the wheel.
I must admit I am not sure if it will work.
Raj
Keep learning till the end.
Re: re: KE PE and torque effect?
No. horizontal movement (with lightning speed) doesn't help to obtain a Torque.raj wrote:What if, in a rotating wheel/s system, two opposite identical weights were FORCED to move/swing and CHANGE orbital paths around the main axle, going up and down SAME HEIGHT???
I had not explained how the orbital change could be done. I was just questioning what if this could be done, would it provide TORQUE for an OB wheel system.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 480#134480
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
re: KE PE and torque effect?
All throughout, I have not deviated from my search for torque driven wheel.
Raj
Raj
Keep learning till the end.
re: KE PE and torque effect?
Just a recap of what I have been trying all along...
Keep learning till the end.
re: KE PE and torque effect?
Thank you Raj your thread has given me a new idea.It was meant to be a brainteaser for forum members.
It can not be new as someone must have tested the design?
The Idea came to me after you were looking at MT138 rocker toys.
I imagined placing one on top of the other on a wheel and control their escapement using the concept in MT23 ramp.
After refinement this original starting point it does not look the same.
However the concepts are present.