The Rubber Band Motor

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The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Grimer »

The following is a short .mp4 video of a Rubber Band Motor. I find the link is a bit flaky for me but it does work eventually.

http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q171 ... otor-1.mp4


This motor is normally described as a heat engine.

But if you think about it the source of heat is only required to replace losses. The energy exchange within the rubber band is adiabatic and therefore if the bands are well insulated the lengths will oscillate from short on the ascending side to long on the descending side.

This oscillation means that the maximum torque for the motor will occur at the oscillation speed of the rubber bands. The way the Bessler reaches a regular speed suggests that the same consideration applies there. In other words, even if all friction and air resistance were to be removed the Bessler would not accelerate indefinitely but merely accelerate to the resonant speed of its internal mechanism.

For a long time I could see there was a possible flaw to the above argument. As far as the 9 and 3 o'clock positions are concerned there's no problem but what about the 12 and 6 o'clock states. Surely the weight of the wheel rim will lead to shortening of the 12 and lengthening of the 6 bands and consequent loss of gravitational potential.

Then recently I realised the importance of Bill Beaty's discovery on the subject. He found that the heating and cooling effect was concentrated right at the end of the band stretch. But that it the point where the material stiffens up enormously. This huge increase in modulus of elasticity means that any deflection in minimal and in the limit negligible compared to the gain in energy from the gravitational imbalance.

It also explains why, with the exception of the RBM illustrated above, the motors shown on YouTube are generally crap. It seems that to make a half decent motor one has to understand what is going on.



To sum up then, the rubber band motor does not need to get heat from the atmosphere or dump heat to the atmosphere if the band are insulated Carnot style. Energy exchange is between the atoms and the long chain molecules within the rubber and is adiabatic. In other words no heat enters the rubber band from the outside or leaves the rubber bands to the outside.

The spinner toy sometimes known as the Humdinger or Whirler is a good example of the hierarchical energy exchange which takes place within the rubber band. It is particularly useful macro model for understanding what's taking place at the micro scale.

The toy comprises a stiff card with two holes drilled at the centre and a loop of string threaded through the holes. To play grab the two loop ends and pull your hands apart so that a loop end rests behind the joint of each of your middle fingers. Position the disk so that it's centred slack on the string, then start spinning the toy away from you until the string on either side has several twists in it."

Pulling rhythmically on the loops spins the disk at high speed. As the speed of the disk increases, the string shortens, and vice versa.

Image

The motion of the disk/spinner represents the rotational energy of the atoms in the long-chain rubber molecules. The motion of the disk/atom oscillator is analogous to the motion of a pendulum oscillator, the big difference being, of course the angle through which each oscillator turns. The pendulum oscillator turns through a fraction of 2pi. The disk oscillator turns through N times 2pi where N is some large number.

The other difference is that a pendulum oscillates between Newtonian gravity and Ersatz gravity potential whereas the disk/atom oscillates between molecular and atomic strain energy.

One interesting thing about the action of the spinner/atom is that in the limit the rotational energy tends to c and the gravitational mass tends to zero. Even in the case of the RBM the mass of the elastic bands in negligible in relation to the mass of the steel bicycle rim.

I suppose that equipped with a good enough laboratory so that one could run an RBM on magnetic bearings in a vacuum chamber together with rubber bands of negligible hysteresis loss one could prove that the RBM is indeed a true gravity engine and does not need an input of heat to run. But such an experimental proof is not necessary for our purposes. All that is needed is to recognise the logical possibility and then to consider how the principle embodied in the RBM can be emulated in a Bessler type mill.

A swinging heavy 4lb lump of lead is virtually adiabatic in operation. I get the feeling the FWG's torn trouser video may be on the way to such a pendulum solution.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Grimer »

An oscillator such as the rubber bands in the RBM will need a controller to keep it from drifting off station. Presumably this is where the external pendulum illustrated in Bessler's drawings comes in.

Because the distribution of various masses in his pendulum is quite complex we can't easily determine the centre of gravity for his pendulum. However, we can work backwards from observed revolutions per minute (25) and find if it results in a plausible answer.

60s/25 = 2.4s

So the period of the pendulum has to be 2.4 seconds.

Substituting in the familiar pendulum formula T = 2.pi.sqrt(L/g) and rearranging gives us:

L = (2.4/(2.pi))².(32.2) = 4.7 ft

Which means the CG of the pendulum has to be somewhere around the red cross on the diagram below.

Image
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Grimer »

The secret of the RBM is that it separates out Newtonian gravity and Ersatz gravity, the gravitational component of mass and the inertial component of mass.

Those of you who took chemistry in the sixth form will remember the practicals on Chemical Analysis where by carefully chosen manipulations one would separate out a compound into its various chemical elements. The RBM does precisely this Gravity Analysis with Newtonian and Ersatz gravity (NG and EG).
It separates the gravitational and inertial properties of mass.

Once one has grasped this key concept it is not difficult to devise equivalent functionality to the RBM on the macro scale rather than the micro scale of atom and long chain molecule of the elastic band spokes.

One such design is shown in the following diagram.

Image

The red pairs of pistons oscillate about the centre of the cylinder at a frequency which makes them the farthest apart on the left hand side and the closest together on the right. The pistons are coupled together by some adiabatic link such an steel spring operating in its elastic range or a gas. The motion of the cylinders is leveraged in some way. I have shown a hydraulic leverage. Bessler would have now doubt used lazy tongs or the equivalent.

Note that as far as NG is concerned the gross motion of the red pistons is neutral. The NG potential increase and decrease of one piston is exactly balanced by the NG potential increase and decrease of the other.

The brown wheel rim on the other hand is neutral with respect to EG. The path of each and every element is identical as they rotate about the displaced centre.

I have not attempted to equalise the volume changed between the large and small cylinders since the diagram is only intended to illustrate the principle of Gravity Analysis, not to be a blueprint for a practical design.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by path_finder »

Dear Grimmer,
If you remember some old topics about the 'torsion bars' hypothesis for the both elongated arms of the Bessler's wheel, you have here at your disposal an efficient mechanical way to implement the above concept.
Indeed the rotation of one side of the wheel thanks the torsion bars is associated with a variation in the distance between the two sides of the wheel.
Although this variation is limited to only few millimeters, this can have an important effect on two heavy flywheels.
I cannot imagine why nobody though on this before, including myself? It is so simple!...
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Post by Grimer »

Interesting point.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Grimer »

I've now realised that you don't need the pair of pistons in each cylinder as as shown in a previous post.

There is no intrinsic need for the pistons to be massive. There mass can be negligible compared to the mass of the rim, the flywheel. Likewise with the spokes.

For instance, the masses of the pistons, both free and driving, in the typical model Stirling Engine are negligible in relation to the mass of the brass flywheel. Likewise the mass of the atoms in the Carnot cycle and RBM are also negligible. In both cases the motion of the oscillating masses is very great so their masses can be very small.

In effect we have a Gnome engine geometry right down to the displaced centre of action for the cylinders.

More later.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Grimer »

Key piece of the jigsaw

Up to this point I have assumed that the spokes were shortest at 9 and longest at three. I now realise this is incorrect and why it is incorrect.

More later.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Richard »

....I think, Gimer....

...you will need a greater mass (pistons).....here energy is derived from mass....not from ( P / V ) ..

it is facilitated ( direction and reset ) by RBM...but I think you can only sustain it through a faster and heavier central mass....?

richard
where man meets science and god meets man never the twain shall meet...till god and man and science sit at gods great judgement seat..a tribute to Bessler....kipling I think
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Post by Grimer »

Richard wrote:....I think, Grimer....

...you will need a greater mass (pistons).....here energy is derived from mass....not from ( P / V ) ..

it is facilitated ( direction and reset ) by RBM...but I think you can only sustain it through a faster and heavier central mass....?

richard
Nope. The energy is derived from gravity. The pistons are merely facilitating oscillators.

Compare with the Stirling. There the energy is derived from heat. The piston/displacer are merely facilitating oscillators.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Richard »

....then I would conclude (guess) the RBM is dependant to ersatz gravity...?

I.e..without ersatz gravity there is no oscillating pistons...

..the "heat" of the Stirling...is an added, entropy that drives the piston....the RBM ask the piston to add the entropy to drive itself???

be patient with me..still confused :-)

richard
where man meets science and god meets man never the twain shall meet...till god and man and science sit at gods great judgement seat..a tribute to Bessler....kipling I think
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Post by Grimer »

Richard wrote:....then I would conclude (guess) the RBM is dependant to ersatz gravity...?

I.e..without ersatz gravity there is no oscillating pistons...
Correct. The RBM needs the intereaction of Newtonian and Ersatz gravities.
..the "heat" of the Stirling...is an added, entropy that drives the piston....the RBM ask the piston to add the entropy to drive itself???
Newtonian Gravity flow takes the place of heat flow. Some of the interaction energy can be used to make up for friction, etc.

On thing is becoming much clearer to me. the CG has to be displaced as in the RBM else angular momentum is not conserved.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Grimer »

spacer.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Grimer »

Image

The above is the normal diagram I have used for contemplating the shortening and lengthening of the elastic band spokes of the Rubber Band Motor (RBM).

The problem with it is that it is difficult to see how Gravity interacts with this wheel. If we take a single component, viz. a single pair of spokes at their maximum differential, the stress in the spoke at 3 o'clock is at right angles to the gravitational field. One feels one needs it to be at some angle so that gravity can do work in shortening the spoke. If the spoke were at 1.30, say, this would meet the bill.

Then serendipity kicked in and I remembered that the heat source in the premier RBM, the one linked to in the first post of this thread and shown in my thumbnail avatar did in fact have the heat source at 7.30 whereas all the other crap RBMs on YouTube had it where I had it in my diagram, i.e. at 9.00.

Also, I remembered the following Eötvös/Coriolis diagram

Image

The Coriolis effect is zero at the poles and the equator. It is at its maximum in between these boundaries.

So I could now rotate my diagram by pi/4 and it began to make a lot more sense.

Image

You will notice that because of the displacement of the hub centre from the wheel centre the band spokes meet the rim at an angle to the normal and provide a component force that is dragging the wheel around. This clockwise couple is balanced by the anti-clockwise couple between the two centres.

But we are not talking about a static balance are we. There has to be a dynamic balance. i.e. the angular momentum of the wheel rim has to be balanced by an equal and opposite angular momentum somewhere else since of all the conservation laws the conservation of angular momentum is the law sans pareil.

Who can spot where this balancing angular momentum is?

Think about it.

When you give up or think you know the answer highlight the lines written in white below.

The anti-clockwise couple between the two centres is rotating the earth/rim system. You can't see it physically but you can intellectually.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by Grimer »

I suppose I first became suspicious that the action of Bessler's wheel must involve the same kind of eccentricity at that of the RBM was when I read in John's book that the sides were covered with some kind of canvas cladding.

This seemed a rather insubstantial protection from inquisitive eyes. Why not use planking, say.

Of course, the floppiness of a fabric cover would allow the centre of the rim to move from the axle and give the necessary balancing couple.

I'll have to go through PERPETUAL MOTION - AN ANCIENT MYSTERY SOLVED?
and find all references to this covering.
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re: The Rubber Band Motor

Post by rlortie »

Grimer,

IIRC not all his wheels were covered with canvas. some had veneer to cover the mechanism-s within.

What I find amusing is that the word for 'veneer' in German means 'camouflage' as used in marquetry inlay found in the popular
Baroque furniture of the time.

Ralph
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