Mayday! Mayday!!!

[raj]

Hello everybody.
Please help me resolve the forces acting in the drawing below.

We have a seesaw of 4-units length on either side of a fulcrum in a horizontal position and a 2-units long pivoting arm in a vertical position on the same fulcrum.
Two identical weights are held in positions in the drawing by identical arms of 4-unit length at 4-unit distance on either side of the seesaw and at 2-unit distance on the pivoting 2-unit length arm.

No need to confess that I am not that good in physics.
Thanks.
Raj

[triplock]

Raj,
As the two identical weights are rigidly fixed in place, they will be pretty much felt where they are. As a result, it may rotate a few degrees CW then keel.

In terms of the forces acting on it, there are none apart from gravity !!

I say this tounge in cheek as I'm not sure what your getting at, and why the urgency expressed through your topic title. Maybe I'm missing something Raj. Please expand further if you wish.

Best wishes

Chris

[raj]

Chris, imagine the following:
1. the seesaw is a 8-unit diameter (in horizontal position) of a wheel on the fulcrum as axle.
2. the 2-unit arm is a 2-unit radius of a smaller wheel on separate hub but on the same fulcrum/axle.

Should the wheels rotate a bit clockwise the positions of the weights will change.Hopefully!!!

I hope you can follow the drawing below.

Resolving the forces acting on the wheels by the weights MAY show if it is worthwhile to continue with this thought.

I sincerely hope forum members will be of help.
Raj

[murilo]

Raj,
all I have to say is that I liked this design, indeed and very much!
I mean, absolutely!
Need still to think about...
If some others will ignore it, THIS will be a prove that your sketch is fine!
(you know, just like those Air Force guys that ignore evident UFOs.)
Best and congrats!
M

[triplock]

Raj,

Thankyou for expanding further your idea. Although it is different and shows some good lateral thinking, it is a keeler in this set up.

Although your core idea of achieving weight displacement by opening and closing the tied rods has merit, it will not work in this application.

Basically, you have two fixed orbit rod attachment paths at 2 & 4 unit r. They are not affixed directly to each other, but share a common axle.

Due to there being no interconnection between the cross bar and shorter leg, the legs will not open and come together as you'd hope.

The rotation of the whole assy has to be tied to the rotation of the seesaw and seperate arm.

Chris

[murilo]

Raj,
our Einstein wanted to say that it will keel but you may deal to this with a retardant charge at the axle!
Still obscured in his privileged mind is also the information that before discard this design there are still some mechanic means to be used.
As someone said here before, engineering is a stuff and physic is other thing.
I think, since you asked, that your 'physic' is fine!
Best!
M
PS: there is a member here that will envy this draw and maybe will sell some resources to you - I said 'sell', not send!

[ovyyus]

If some others will ignore it, THIS will be a prove that your sketch is fine!

Proof? Sounds a little self-serving, Murilo :D

[Bill_Mothershead]

Kinda reminds me of this (attached .gif).

I think this might be Pathfinder's drawing.

[raj]

Murilo!
Thanks a lot for your encouraging words.

Chris!
Thanks a lot for your comments.

I must mention that the 8-unit diameter wheel and the 4-unit diameter wheel are geared in such a way that the smaller wheel rotates at twice the speed of the larger wheel's rotation, i.e when the larger wheel turn 45 degrees, the smaller wheel turns 90 degrees.

This should help you check the movements and positions of the weights through 360 degrees rotation of the larger wheel.

Bill!
Thanks a lot for the attached simulation video.

I am surprisingly impressed, having seen it for the first time.
Unfortunately, I could not quite folow the movements and positions of the weights through 360 degrees rotation of the wheel.
I have tried to sketch (faithfully) several drawings at 45 degrees interval starting from the 12 o'clock position of the wheel in the simulation.

I am attaching below, one of my sketched drawing.
I hope you can appreciate it and decide which direction the wheel should turn.

Raj

[path_finder]

Dear Bill_Mothershead,
The above animation is an excerpt from my personal album (here: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?u=1323)
May I precise this design is NOT working. The corresponding building has been tried and published. Some examples implementing this principle here:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/files/builder2.jpeg
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/files/hamster_w4c.jpg
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/files/hamster_w4e.jpg


Dear raj,
Many thanks for sharing (again). A green dot for.
As explained many time: IMHO a wheel based on a static point of view, CANNOT work (the potential energy summary being null).
Something else is required for create the unbalance.

[raj]

Dear Path_Finder,
I marvel at you drawings, simulations, builds and and total engineering skills. Hats off to you!

As for me, at best, I can only attempt 2D crude sketches to convey my ideas.
One thing I have learnt a live video becomes a static picture when frozen at a chosen instant.
I try to convey my vivid ideas in motion in my mind only through frozen instant in my drawings.
Just like if you freeze a player kicking a ball at an instant, you may find the ball fixed in the air, and the player head down and legs up fixed in the air as well.
There will be no kinetic or potential energy apparent in this frozen picture/drawing. But it would be possible to guess the motions and positions of the player and the ball at the NEXT following instant.

Below I have tried to draw my gravity wheel concept at four frozen points (pauses in motion) starting from the 12 o'clock position of the larger wheel.
I sincerely hope forum members can guess the movements and positions of the weights and wheels in the NEXT following instant in each of the drawing and decide for themselves which direction the wheels will turn.
Please kindly let me know which direction you think the wheels will turn?

Raj

[murilo]

If some others will ignore it, THIS will be a prove that your sketch is fine!

Proof? Sounds a little self-serving, Murilo :D

ovyyus,
yessss... the traps of language correctors...
Thanks! Worst of all is that I'll miss this again! &(
In Portuguese the verb 'provar' fits the two senses.
Best!
M

[murilo]

Murilo!
Thanks a lot for your encouraging words.

Chris!
Thanks a lot for your comments.

I must mention that the 8-unit diameter wheel and the 4-unit diameter wheel are geared in such a way that the smaller wheel rotates at twice the speed of the larger wheel's rotation, i.e when the larger wheel turn 45 degrees, the smaller wheel turns 90 degrees.

This should help you check the movements and positions of the weights through 360 degrees rotation of the larger wheel.

Bill!
Thanks a lot for the attached simulation video.

I am surprisingly impressed, having seen it for the first time.
Unfortunately, I could not quite folow the movements and positions of the weights through 360 degrees rotation of the wheel.
I have tried to sketch (faithfully) several drawings at 45 degrees interval starting from the 12 o'clock position of the wheel in the simulation.

I am attaching below, one of my sketched drawing.
I hope you can appreciate it and decide which direction the wheel should turn.

Raj

Raj,
absolutely, for true, I must to recognize that your draw is much 'familiar' with PF's line of designing.
BTW, PF, I'm sorry!
FOS, your draw shows a 180º interconnection that can be worthy for the 'switch', case KE is used.
Repeat: a charge and/or a anti-keel management with gears should be tried!
Best!
M

[raj]

Hi all forum members!
Please accept my seasonal greetings from the tropical Island 'Mauritius'

I am not claiming anything. I am only trying to assess with all your help whether my new concept of a gravity wheel looks plausible enough, THEORITICally, to warrant further persuance.

In order that you can follow my concept, I am putting here, below, two drawings that would show you how the two wheels are geared ( planetary gear style) so that the smaller turns in the same direction and at twice the speed of the larger wheel.
The drawings are self-explanatory.

Raj

[Bill_Mothershead]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritius

Interesting read.

Mauritius [is] about 900 kilometres (560 mi) east of Madagascar.

Wow. Didn't even know anything was out that way.


Welcome to the forum, Raj.