A Motion Machine

[rasselasss]

Hello,i'm new to this forum,but i have been reading the many blogs by you all since i got "on line"so to speak.For 10 years i have been trying in vain to develop a "motion machine"that will run for months even years to no avail until now.I have tried and tested most but in the past week i have finally "clicked"on how the m/c is made to run....i am not computer literate so please forgive any mistakes in my effort to explain Bessler's m/c.............Firstly we must look at the man,he was a clockmaker in his youth,he had limited tools and materials at his disposal and he was a talented carpenter......he lived in a part of the world that led the way for clock technology in those days...one of the clues he left he emphasised the word"quarters"which is all important to the m/c.....secondly there are no pendulums,swinging weights,springs of any sort or magnets of any description......just simple engineering practices.....i hope this imparts knowledge to the many intelligent people here.......We must look at certain engineering practices we know work the first is the differential of a car axle drive to the road wheels...when the vehicle is jacked up on one side with the engine in gear and running the wheel on the ground does not turn but the one jacked does......understanding why is all important.....clockmakers have known why for hundreds of years and this knowledge was borrowed by car makers years later...........understanding how the driven train of a sprung watch or clock and how to govern the release is also all important(we do not use the spring just the gear chain)......next we need to know how an acme quick thread works(same as on a vice in our workshop but made of wood just like Bessler would make)......we know the drum he used was wooden shaped like a bass drum with one side containing the workings and an axle passing through the centre which for certain was "keyed"to the drum.......now to expain the drum mechanics which is a controlled movement(just like a good watch or clock)but without spring driven....the drum has north,south,east and west or "quartered"divisions which are quick acme threaded....the weights which are screwed internally to go up or down were merely molded lead over the same type of thread(this is how he would have got an internal corresponding thread,they would have been a rattling fit so to speak to aid travel)the weights would be made with a rod inserted to stop the turning moment so that they moved up or down,this would be govererned by a simple slotted plate fixed to the inside of the wheel.....phew ...i will explain the rest tomorrow night as i said i am not well versed in computer knowhow to include a drawing(i would'nt know how to put it on being a novice)bye for know.

[path_finder]

Welcome rasselasss on the forum.
Waiting on the next step of your explanation.

[rasselasss]

Thanks Path finder i wish i had your descriptive words and image display skills........After reading my post a few details need clarified,firstly the drum(wheel)has one solid side,a boss with a keyed shaft through it,the acme spokes or shafts are a loose fit within the drum so they can turn freely how else can the captive threaded weights climb up or down the slotted fixed guideplate.......acme quick thread is similar to and an abbreviation for archimedes which Bessler knew about (see the Bessler drawings).......Now for the difficult part.....to understand the priciples involved we must look at sturmey- archer hub gears....the annulus gear in particular .....we must also understand how a drop/snail cam and face cam works...this is important......these features were used in clockmaking,chiming etc.in the past i looked at the weights complication of the 365 day grandfather clocks of that period though it was a dead end i realized the"clock"clues were extremley important.Bessler in his drawings shows govenors outside the wheel which were "red herrings"to shroud and confuse but explains to me his knowledge of clock mechanics......i must close now and will explain tomorrow the rest of the mechanics.......Wedding Anniversary dinner out.

[path_finder]

I wish to you and your wife, a happy wedding anniversary.
http://www.dgreetings.com/anniversary/a ... ry022.html

In view to improve your explanation what you can do is perhaps to draw the concept on the paper, and find a friend owner of a multifunction printer, which can then upload the file.
In any case I'm waiting the next post.

[Bill_Mothershead]

Required reading....

look at sturmey- archer hub gears....the annulus gear in particular

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmey-Archer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicyclic_gearing

.....we must also understand how a drop/snail cam and face cam works

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striking_clock
( section "How It Works" Fig. 29)

[Andyb]

Hi,welcome to the forum ,it sounds very interesting ,looking forward to hearing more ,all the best Andy.

[rasselasss]

http://www.technologystudent.com/cams/snail1.htm

[rasselasss]

Thanks P/F,B.M/h and Andyb.....the above link,if you scroll down gives with P/f's image motion the different cam mechanical applications albeit it in a simple way.I know most of you know these mechanical means but it helps to be reminded and could help some in their quest....Bill Motherhead i have gleaned quite a lot from reading the young peoples endeavours on this site and read quite a lot of your contributions ,i have also marvelled at their grasp of computer technology,i believe we should help one another,why else were we put on this earth,i shall post later ..thanks again .

[Unbalanced]

Hello rasselasss and welcome to the forum,

I too look forward to any future input, especially illustrations, you may be able to provide us.

Writing from the view of a true pessimist, a ramp mechanism by any other name is still just that and (in this corner) tried and discarded in all its manifestations.

The snail drop cam has been tossed about and experimented with by myself and several others here. It is shown as the lifting mechanism in the drawings of Bessler's stamp mill and has been proposed as the missing lifting mechanism in several of Bessler's MT drawings especially MT 135:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... Mt_135.jpg thanks be to Bill.

I am by no means trying to throw water on the fire of your inspiration and I look forward to all of your future posts.

Again welcome to BW. Curtis

[path_finder]

Dear Bill_Mothershead,
Many thanks for the links.
I must admit I had some difficulty before your post to understand what Sturmey-Archer was.

[rasselasss]

I've had a good/bad day,the good part the wife went to spend the day and early evening with her sister,(since retirement she thinks i should have a paintbrush in one hand and tin of paint in the other...Honestly i had more spare time before retiring)The bad part i started to build a model of my contraption but after posting a link to cams and reading Unbalanced post about the dropcam(which i appreciate) i am having doubts about the build....Namely the energy consumption required to move the weight north to the perimeter of the drum and south up to the hub of the axle using cams and drive train of cogwheels from the annulus of the hub also the pie (22/7)factor which could put it out of kilter through train lash or being a second or two(degree)out which would exagerate the it turns.........it takes me so long to type this computer may close me out so i'll continue shortly.

[rasselasss]

Hope that last post made sense.......Here's the problem, we are looking into the drum(wheel)the four spokes with weights attached and pegs which move freely up and down the slotted fixed plate....one at 12 o'clock(north)....one at 3 o'clock(east)...one at 6 o'clock(south).....and one at 9 o'clock(west)...i had hoped to use a mechanism as stated now i think a fixed(static) cams could be used to move the pegs attached to the weights to the positions required to make the wheel turn which if it does we know how to multiply the torque to enable it to do work.........PS pathfinder i looked at your post on how to post images......i have to admit its beyond my novice computer ability.......i'm a daft irishman...seriously i admire and am amazed at your capabilities i'm more of a" hands on "person...thanks to all again.....

[jim_mich]

.PS pathfinder i looked at your post on how to post images......i have to admit its beyond my novice computer ability.......i'm a daft irishman...seriously i admire and am amazed at your capabilities i'm more of a" hands on "person...

This link should help with uploading/posting pictures...
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/files ... es_242.png

[rasselasss]

Jim Mich....thanks for that...when my contraption model is finished i'll post a photo...it looks likeits the same as attaching a photo to an e-mail which is something i can do....i'm into digital photograpy(macro etc)....by the way my beard is white also!!!thanks again

[Unbalanced]

@rasselasss,

Posting even primitive images is worth a thousand words and the effort to master.

I am perhaps not the lamest of illustrators but close. I use a simple paint program many of which are available for free on line. Saving your drawings as .gif or .jpg or other to your desktop makes them easy to find to upload. A scanner is a must for digitizing hand drawn images.

Many of us are handier in the shop than the computer but uploading images is a snap from the posting page where you have been writing your submissions. Look for Click to Add Attachment and the rest is easy.

Most often collaboration is advantageous. It can save a lot of time and money.

I am most interested in what you envision within the axle.