The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

A Bessler, gravity, free-energy free-for-all. Registered users can upload files, conduct polls, and more...

Moderator: scott

Post Reply

Do you believe this has a good chance at being a runner?

You may select 1 option

 
 
View results

Trevor Lyn Whatford
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: England

The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by Trevor Lyn Whatford »

Hi all,
This is one of the best chances of a out of balance runner since the start of this Forum!
This thread is mainly to gage peoples understanding of the Avalanchedrive concept and how it can be improved. Firstly it is not like any other chain drive that you have seen on the internet, it is unique and can be split into two sections, the + potential energy side, and the – potential energy side.
1. With a extendable chain that is closing links at the top of the steep incline is not a stretched chain, thus no balancing both sides of the system, like the crap designs on the internet which I made the mistake of thinking Murilo was one, which it is defiantly not, this design has a separate chain link to drive the top gear, and a double the weight capacity on the +PE side, from using the Avalanche chain. Looking at the attached drawing, you can split the + and – PE, and the fact that Potential Energy is a still shot!
2. Because the bottom cog is twice as big as the top cog there is a large torque advantage so when this is added on although the top gear is move twice as fast so the ascending weights will feel twice as heavy, there are a lot of weights on the bottom cog with twice the leverage, which nulls a lot of the twice as fast negative weight value, so a did a quick calculation of the torque advantage and it looks like this, the negative torque advantage of the 24 ascending weights moving twice as fast makes that the same as lifting double the weight 24 x2 = 48, the positive torque advantage of 28 weights have a greater leverage position on a bigger gear of 1.5 = a extra 14 weights added to the 60 descending weights = 74 +PE – 48 –PE equals 26 real descending weight advantage, that can be used for a free energy take off .
Here is the improvements,
Hi all,
Murilo has given me permission to post a drawing of improvements to his Avalanche so I can show it on this BW thread, having conversations with Murilo he clearly knows the potential of the Avalanchedrive, and was already aware of the changes that can be changed, but has let me have a go at it which I am honoured to do so. You see a lot of this sort of design on the internet but none are as versatile as the Avalanchedrive wherein Murilo has over come the main problems with a double weighted expandable chain, this stop the weighted chain being supported on both sides of the top gear coursing unwanted balance. Most people here do not see what murilo has done here, it splits the system into two sides, the + PE and the – PE as well as putting double the true weight on the +PE side.
A quick summary of the changes,
1. double the size of the bottom gear to increase the input torque and keep it working for longer in the system.
2. Putting his avalanchedrive inside a free running wheel to help the avalanche chain run out of the bottom gear and more importantly gives a extra length of chain and its torque into the + PE part of the system, the bottom gear and the large wheel exchange the chain to the large wheel so the falling closed chain links mesh the bottom gear and the free running larger wheel together via the teeth, this is so when the weighted chain moves onto the large wheel it puts the torque back onto the bottom gear at the gears high torque position.
3. The bottom gear is twice as big as the top gear and drives the top gear at 2 to 1 ratio, by separate gears and chain this locks the timing of the system.
4. The avalanche chain is lifted by the top gear it then drops it onto a inclined accumulator to close the links and doubles the weights again, the avalanche chain then slides off the incline onto the bottom gear at a better torque position, then off the bottom gear onto the large wheel, this puts more Avalanche chain into the system that does more work in the cycle, the cycle is one turn of the bottom gear. I believe that now there is more + PE with a higher torque value in the system than – PE with a lower torque value!
My Conclusion,
Attached is a drawing of how the above is laid out, first lets keep it simple, and forget the 24 – PE (24 – Potential Energy )weights moving twice as fast, instead just say the ascending weight is twice as heavy, ( now 48 – PE weights ) so now you can get a bit of cord and measure the – PE side and deduct it from the 60 + PE side, ( + PE = 60 + Potential Energy weights ) when 48 – PE is taken away from the 60 + PE it leaves 12 + PE weights left that is the extra free + FPE ( + FPE = 12 Free Potential Energy weights ), there are 10 weights balanced on top of the top gear which I left out to keep it simple, now you can look at the greater torque ( + TA =Torque Advantage )on the + PE side if you like, I leave it to you to make your own minds up, I know most here do not like a load of Algebra so I have tried to keep it simple, the bottom line is, there are 12 extra weights on the +PE side, and a greater torque Advantage on the + PE side!
What I post about the Avalanche Drive is Murilo’s to do with what he wants, there is no guarantee that it will work, and will take a build to find out, but that is Murilo’s call, there are still linkage problems to look at, and Murilo will improve on what I have added, a lot of my input, I am sure Murilo was already aware of. I have enjoyed looking into Murilo’s Avalanche Drive of which I thank Murilo for taking the time to explain it to me for I had missed what he was up to!
Regards Trevor

Edit, add weight.
Attachments
The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!
The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!
Last edited by Trevor Lyn Whatford on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have been wrong before!
I have been right before!
Hindsight will tell us!
User avatar
eccentrically1
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3133
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:25 pm

Post by eccentrically1 »

You need to resize your jpg, it won't fit on my 23" monitor when I try to view it.
Trevor Lyn Whatford
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: England

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by Trevor Lyn Whatford »

Hi Eccentrically1,

there is not much I can do at this time, my computer crashed in Brazil so I brought one out there, my scanner would not load properly, and will only do photos, I have got to get a load of software to get all my stuff working again!

Regards Trevor
I have been wrong before!
I have been right before!
Hindsight will tell us!
User avatar
Tarsier79
Addict
Addict
Posts: 5002
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:17 am
Location: Qld, Australia

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by Tarsier79 »

Leverage can occur by many means. Levers, Gears, Hydrostatic pressures.
Load occurs when a mass has to be lifted against gravity, or by some other method... IE charging a battery with a generator.

What is the point of an Avalanche driving a wheel, if it can drive itself? Why not just tap off one of the gears?

The avalanche does not, and will never work. Murillo inserts it into any thread that attracts attention. His lack of understanding spreads to those who do not understand both leverage and load.

Static PE can not overcome static PE. Trevor, I hope you find the way to understanding this, by whatever means. Unfortunately, I don't think you will. The same thing that proves the avalanche to be a static mobile also relates to many of the theories on your website. Although building is the ultimate test, understanding the futility of a build IMO is better than spending hundreds of dollars(or more) on laser cut gears, and low RPM generators. All of us take a different path to our destination, and all of our destinations are different. Although you seem not to be far from understanding why the Avalanche will never work, that small step may prove to be particularly difficult.

Good luck!
User avatar
murilo
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3199
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:49 pm
Location: sp - brazil
Contact:

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by murilo »

Trevor,
thank you very much!
Abraços!
Murilo
Trevor Lyn Whatford
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: England

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by Trevor Lyn Whatford »

Hi Kaine,
What could I do? Murilo is always going to build the Avalanchedrive whether I helped him or not, the least I could do is to make it more efficient for him, and point him to a better use of his design, I think he needed some fresh eye’s on the positive side for a change, and I am more than happy to help him, when you look at all the negatives I have now turned into positive it now looks in good shape, everyone here (me as well ) said it would balance before, so if they where right then it will be a positive out of balance now, the +PE is now just that, so wait till the motive force kicks in on the out of balance.

The static PE is 10 weights with no PE and 60 weights with+ PE against 24 weights with –PE! Be my guest check out the incline losses and anything else you may think I have left out, I have been as fare as I can with my sums.

My dream of a Gravity powered planet, is not just a dream, it was a gravity powered planet long before for Man, and will be again after Man kind has gone, man can make all the laws he wants but he cannot stop gravity from being a perpetual force, you will find out soon that I know more about levers than you believe I know.

Thanks for your well meaning though, I know you are trying to help me see the errors of my of thinking, just as I am trying to help you with yours!
Regards Trevor

Edit, the point of driving the wheel is to make a efficient lead out of the bottom gear, so you are driving the wheel with weight that was sitting on a guide before doing nothing, now it drives the big outer wheel, which puts it energy back into the bottom gear at a higher torque position, all this plus less friction of dragging weight between a gear and a guide, plus there is now more weight descending in the system than in the cycle at any time, the cycle being one turn of the bottom main gear, which is the best place for any energy take off, it would be wise to build in a braking system to slow it down until it a suitable load can be added, if you are going to think, then think positive.
Edit, + just
Last edited by Trevor Lyn Whatford on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have been wrong before!
I have been right before!
Hindsight will tell us!
User avatar
Tarsier79
Addict
Addict
Posts: 5002
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:17 am
Location: Qld, Australia

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by Tarsier79 »

Well, if you can teach me something new, I will be quite happy.

Good luck with your build.
bobriddle
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:01 am

Post by bobriddle »

eccentrically1 wrote:You need to resize your jpg, it won't fit on my 23" monitor when I try to view it.
Try ctrl and tap the minus.

edited to add; tapping the minus tab (between the 0 and the =) shrinks the image. The = enlarges the web page/pic, etc.
User avatar
murilo
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3199
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:49 pm
Location: sp - brazil
Contact:

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by murilo »

All of you know that I'm 100% sure about my device avalanchedrive and that fortunately I'm not alone on this knowledge.

As you may guess, I'm still in try, so as looking/finding possible arguments to send some light to the skeptical dark side.

Fact is that I just found a new view for some guys that may not 'see' the possibility of such device... as it was a cultural intuition... 8[

I bet as inside your technical BOX base operates a stuff called CATENARY, which you may easily search on wiki/google.

Be sure, in my project happens an absolutely different behavior, since it's not hold in the top and has the below axle on ground!

So easy and logic! 8)
TC!
Murilo
Trevor Lyn Whatford
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: England

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by Trevor Lyn Whatford »

Hi Murilo, my big brov,

could you post a photo of your drive chain here so people can see your double weight links!

Also can I have your permission to post this topic on my web site?

Its good we have the same mother so she can help us both, regards Trevor
I have been wrong before!
I have been right before!
Hindsight will tell us!
Art
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: Australia

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by Art »

Hi bobriddle,

" Try ctrl and tap the minus.
edited to add; tapping the minus tab (between the 0 and the =) shrinks the image. The = enlarges the web page/pic, etc "


Your advice works like a charm , its not knowing the simple little tricks like this that makes me a frustrated digital amateur.

Here's a greenie : )
Have had the solution to Bessler's Wheel approximately monthly for over 30 years ! But next month is "The One" !
User avatar
murilo
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3199
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:49 pm
Location: sp - brazil
Contact:

Re: re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by murilo »

Trevor Lyn Whatford wrote:Hi Murilo, my big brov,

could you post a photo of your drive chain here so people can see your double weight links!

Also can I have your permission to post this topic on my web site?

Its good we have the same mother so she can help us both, regards Trevor
Yes, my bro...
absolutely you can put my project at your site, if/since you want! Thanks!

Since you want to see the double elements chain - or paralleled weights - I send a photo where it may be hardly seen and a draw. If it's not clear, pls let me know.

Yep... as you know, our common Mom is our worthy Planet! 8))))
( what a responsibility!!! 8)
Attachments
DSC02234_small.jpg
User avatar
murilo
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3199
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:49 pm
Location: sp - brazil
Contact:

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by murilo »

( draw, as said and where 'z' view is better clear, the small axles, so as the mobile locks to form expanded triangles.)
Attachments
Z5.JPG
Trevor Lyn Whatford
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:13 pm
Location: England

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by Trevor Lyn Whatford »

Hi Murilo my brov,
Thanks for that, your Avalanchedrive is coming along nicely, I hope the floor can take the weight? The best of luck with your build, and I hope mum breaths life into it for you, I hope you are in good health, and life is being good to you, it will be a couple of weeks before I get time to load it all on my website, but when I have I will let you know so you can approve it, and make any changes you would like,
Sleep well, knowing mum is holding you in her arms! Regards Trevor
I have been wrong before!
I have been right before!
Hindsight will tell us!
User avatar
murilo
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3199
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:49 pm
Location: sp - brazil
Contact:

re: The Avalanchedrive driving a wheel!

Post by murilo »

Trevor, oi!
Bem?
As you may know I made another bigger 22 hooks wheel, and time will be needed to arrange other specific pieces. Worst of all is that to use my same old chain, the unbalance will be of only -36%.

In the while, I'll try a belt trick to manage same set I have.
This very new photo will show the 'y' view of the chain, while hang by nylon belt. Everything else is now dismantled.

Take care!
M
Attachments
DSC04207-02.jpg
Post Reply