Hi everyone. I've been browsing this forum for a couple months and have seen some very cool ideas (and read some interesting conversations!) and haven't seen too many physical builds. I don't have any degrees in physics (although I did take physics in HS) but I'm handy and like to build stuff.
Anyhow, my current building materials (not all my 'wheels' are the same)are 12" wooden embroidery hoops (from the Darice company), popsicle sticks, and paint 'stir' sticks. The hoops are $1.50 each and glue with Elmer's quite nicely. Popsicle hobby sticks are ultra cheap and the paint sticks are free so the materials for building wooden 'wheels' isn't terribly expensive. And string... And some marbles in case I lose some on the way... (j/k) Ten bucks buys everything you need pretty much!
I also have a couple of erector sets as well as some additional 'rim' parts coming for some larger metal wheel builds. Although they cost a bit (cough) more than the wooden hoops etc., I'm hoping that the modularity of the erector set will allow me to try different ideas without having to buy still more materials. Besides, I've never had an erector set until about a week ago (these are from the early 1950's, WAY before my time).
I will take some photos and upload them at some point and share some of my own thoughts on Bessler and what he was up to.
Glad to be here, cheers to everyone!
Happy building! :)
PC
Materials and physical builds (low end research)
Moderator: scott
Welcome. I was maybe 10 years old when first allowed to 'play' with my older brother's erector set. That was some time around 1957. When I left home, it was passed down to my younger brothers. Later I picked up a used erector set at an auction. I still have what is left of it, after my boys played with it.
re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
I use PVC pipe and ball bearings, but nuts or bolts will work instead of the ball bearing. Nick B. used old bicycle wheels and super balls.
re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
Most people here don’t think energy producing machines can be built. These people will try to discourage you from any such attempt.
Of the remaining 5% most of those are trying for a perpetual imbalance. A few are looking for an undiscovered or yet to be described form of energy.
And then there are a few of us that think the answer will come from Classic Newtonian Physics: F = ma, or The Law of Conservation of Momentum, which are Newton’s Three Laws of Motion.
If the world is Newtonian then the experiments should be almost free. An empty can with a weighted string through its diameter will make energy. Without any motion sensing equipment you will be able to see the can stop and/or rotate backwards. The event of making energy is the essential step in any energy producing machine.
I have the good fortune of having video cameras; a strobe light, and photo gates. All data collected concurs with Newtonian Physics. Other than these measuring devices; the bearing are the biggest cost, and you can make energy without the bearings. Most other stuff I find in salvage yards or in the trash at work.
Of the remaining 5% most of those are trying for a perpetual imbalance. A few are looking for an undiscovered or yet to be described form of energy.
And then there are a few of us that think the answer will come from Classic Newtonian Physics: F = ma, or The Law of Conservation of Momentum, which are Newton’s Three Laws of Motion.
If the world is Newtonian then the experiments should be almost free. An empty can with a weighted string through its diameter will make energy. Without any motion sensing equipment you will be able to see the can stop and/or rotate backwards. The event of making energy is the essential step in any energy producing machine.
I have the good fortune of having video cameras; a strobe light, and photo gates. All data collected concurs with Newtonian Physics. Other than these measuring devices; the bearing are the biggest cost, and you can make energy without the bearings. Most other stuff I find in salvage yards or in the trash at work.
re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
A picture of a couple different wooden wheels and my first erector 'wheel' frame. The metal wheel is 20" across, plenty of room (hopefully) to put some 'things' inside and see what happens. I am going to build another metal wheel as soon as I receive a few more supplies. For now I need to build a frame (or two) to hold them so they can turn.
PC
PC
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re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
Well after several hours and some rebuilding of my original 'shell' I have a pretty sturdy wheel and stand. It doesn't wobble or drift too much and spins surprisingly well on just the bar axle. More to come when I get time...
Why aren't there a bunch of these being used around here? Easy to come by, not to expensive, everyone could easily try/modify different setups. Maybe because building actual models is considered a waste of time?? IMO if you don't start building, you will never finish building.
The wooden constructions are a lot more time consuming but really inexpensive.
I will probably line the inside of the metal one with some flexible plastic so I can see in there and trap the 'parts' so they don't escape...
Happy building!
PC
Why aren't there a bunch of these being used around here? Easy to come by, not to expensive, everyone could easily try/modify different setups. Maybe because building actual models is considered a waste of time?? IMO if you don't start building, you will never finish building.
The wooden constructions are a lot more time consuming but really inexpensive.
I will probably line the inside of the metal one with some flexible plastic so I can see in there and trap the 'parts' so they don't escape...
Happy building!
PC
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re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
PhiChaser
welcome to the forum. I like your erector set. The one I have only has the round holes. If you are looking for ball bearings? Enco is a great place and you can get them fairly inexpensive.
I myself make most of my parts due to I am a blacksmith.
Good luck on your builds.
welcome to the forum. I like your erector set. The one I have only has the round holes. If you are looking for ball bearings? Enco is a great place and you can get them fairly inexpensive.
I myself make most of my parts due to I am a blacksmith.
Good luck on your builds.
"Our education can be the limitation to our imagination, and our dreams"
So With out a dream, there is no vision.
Old and future wheel videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/ABthehammer/videos
Alan
So With out a dream, there is no vision.
Old and future wheel videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/ABthehammer/videos
Alan
re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
Nice thread. Remember time when I was searching for bigger size rims. Bicycle rims seemed to be too small. The maximum diameter of bicycle wheel on market is ~ 27 inches (622 / 630 mm), the wheels of racing bikes.
Then I found a nice and handy tool to make rims with steel as big as I want.
Is this what you call a rolling mill ???
Then I found a nice and handy tool to make rims with steel as big as I want.
Is this what you call a rolling mill ???
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simplicity is a key ...
Re: re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
Phi,PhiChaser wrote:A picture of a couple different wooden wheels and my first erector 'wheel' frame. The metal wheel is 20" across, plenty of room (hopefully) to put some 'things' inside and see what happens. I am going to build another metal wheel as soon as I receive a few more supplies. For now I need to build a frame (or two) to hold them so they can turn.
PC
I envy the great means you have! 8)
Congratulations!
Best!
M
re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
Thanks for the kind words and comments everyone. Hopefully soon I will have a little time to work on some 'real' ideas. For now I have put together a three spindle 'swing set' but I don't have any decent weights at the moment. The pencil erasers I was going to use don't keep the string tight enough and I haven't put anything on the inside of the wheel to 'catch' the weights yet, so this is what I have so far. The weights will be able to rotate 360 degrees and should get pretty close to the axle while still landing on the outside wheel with the string fully extended.
Just something to start with, I had to take out one of the center crossmembers to get the three sided swing in there. Maybe I will buy some lead fishing weights tomorrow or go searching 2nd hand stores for ???
You can see from the pics I am using a couple different types of erector set.
Oh yeah, I put some thin rigid plastic around the inside of the wheel, not sure how easy that is to see. It needs some little 'walls' to catch the weights too (?), but I'm not there quite yet...
Happy building,
PC
Just something to start with, I had to take out one of the center crossmembers to get the three sided swing in there. Maybe I will buy some lead fishing weights tomorrow or go searching 2nd hand stores for ???
You can see from the pics I am using a couple different types of erector set.
Oh yeah, I put some thin rigid plastic around the inside of the wheel, not sure how easy that is to see. It needs some little 'walls' to catch the weights too (?), but I'm not there quite yet...
Happy building,
PC
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re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
I picked up some fishing 'cannonball' weights today as well as a multipack of teardrop shaped weights at a local store. I tried some 2oz weights but they were too heavy so I stepped back to the 3/4oz weights. I also ended up going with a Newton's cradle style mounting for the weights instead of a single string pendulum style; they self-centered themselves helping keep everything better balanced.
Anyways, here are a couple pictures of the current test setup (without the outer wheel on). The weights just barely touch the inside of the plastic at the moment. Too close maybe? Dunno...
I would like to try a similar setup with five weights/arms instead of three although I'm sure that you could add a thousand and it would still keel.
So...
Thoughts I have had recently:
When you are on a swing you can pull the chains together or push the chains apart; this gets the seat closer to the center (pivot point). When you relax the chains you move further away from the center. Now, if you look at a five armed swing set going in five different directions and you set a spring in the center (around the axle and acting as a 'spacer' between the 'sides' of the swing set), when one side of the spring was 'pushing' the chains apart (raising the weights) the other side would be 'pulling' them together (lowering the weights). The pivots move in or out giving you the same effect, i.e. moving the weight towards/away from the center...
Another way to look at it: If you pull the sides apart the swing goes up, if the sides come together the swing goes down.
Would the bottom side of the spring (lower arms) always be compressed and the top of the spring (upper arms) always be uncompressed??? Seems like this might be able to 'pump' the weights as they come up? Hope this makes sense....
Guess I need to find some springs at some point and see.
Happy building,
PC
Anyways, here are a couple pictures of the current test setup (without the outer wheel on). The weights just barely touch the inside of the plastic at the moment. Too close maybe? Dunno...
I would like to try a similar setup with five weights/arms instead of three although I'm sure that you could add a thousand and it would still keel.
So...
Thoughts I have had recently:
When you are on a swing you can pull the chains together or push the chains apart; this gets the seat closer to the center (pivot point). When you relax the chains you move further away from the center. Now, if you look at a five armed swing set going in five different directions and you set a spring in the center (around the axle and acting as a 'spacer' between the 'sides' of the swing set), when one side of the spring was 'pushing' the chains apart (raising the weights) the other side would be 'pulling' them together (lowering the weights). The pivots move in or out giving you the same effect, i.e. moving the weight towards/away from the center...
Another way to look at it: If you pull the sides apart the swing goes up, if the sides come together the swing goes down.
Would the bottom side of the spring (lower arms) always be compressed and the top of the spring (upper arms) always be uncompressed??? Seems like this might be able to 'pump' the weights as they come up? Hope this makes sense....
Guess I need to find some springs at some point and see.
Happy building,
PC
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re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
In search of a spring today...
Consider the old wooden children's toy the wooden acrobat.
Squeeze the bottom and the top spreads apart and the acrobat flips and twirls (i.e. moves 'in' and 'out' relative to the pivot point accordingly)...
Something a carpenter's kid could build... Hmm.
I will try to post a drawing or more pictures later...
Happy building,
PC
Consider the old wooden children's toy the wooden acrobat.
Squeeze the bottom and the top spreads apart and the acrobat flips and twirls (i.e. moves 'in' and 'out' relative to the pivot point accordingly)...
Something a carpenter's kid could build... Hmm.
I will try to post a drawing or more pictures later...
Happy building,
PC
re: Materials and physical builds (low end research)
Got a box of misc. springs from the orange hardware store and also a 'crib' spring from another store but I ended up using three springs instead of the one (couldn't find the right size...). It took a bit of doing but I have them in there, now I just need to get the tops of the swings attached so that they can move apart and together without moving too far... How much tension should I try to put on them (if any?).
I guess there won't be three axles anymore, just the 'ropes' attached to the ends of the arms.
Fun stuff... Seems like an idea that has some merit anyways. One side moves in the other sides move out, just like the acrobat toy. Watch him dance... Or not...
Will have to draw some things one of these days for clarity...
Anyhow, another picture for the build.
Happy building,
PC
EDIT: Looks like I will have to put some sort of rigid axle inside the springs otherwise the arms won't stay aligned properly, the springs want to twist things...
I guess there won't be three axles anymore, just the 'ropes' attached to the ends of the arms.
Fun stuff... Seems like an idea that has some merit anyways. One side moves in the other sides move out, just like the acrobat toy. Watch him dance... Or not...
Will have to draw some things one of these days for clarity...
Anyhow, another picture for the build.
Happy building,
PC
EDIT: Looks like I will have to put some sort of rigid axle inside the springs otherwise the arms won't stay aligned properly, the springs want to twist things...
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