Comments about AP Part 2, Chapter XLVI

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jim_mich
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Comments about AP Part 2, Chapter XLVI

Post by jim_mich »

This poem by Bessler is like the old time fairy tales. If you look into the origin of children’s fairy tales, they often were news and gossip about famous people, but were disguised as children’s stories or poems, usually to protect the author from prosecution. Those who knew a little background would recognize the characters and the events. The writer could say things by cloaking it as a children’s story. Only the adults that were privy to the facts would understand the real hidden story.

Bessler little piece of poetry was written in such fashion. There are no secrets hidden in the verse about how to construct his wheel. I've copied Ricki's translation here and added some notes explaining my view as to the meanings. Note that Gill did not give Ricki the first paragraph of the poem. For those I retrieved two lines of translations posted by Steward on the forum back in 2006.

For reference:

These verses come from AP Part 2, Chapter XLVI.

Two lines marked ** were translated by Stewart. These are the last two lines of the 1st paragraph.

Ricki's translation that I use here is from the Translations thread. It starts with the 2nd paragraph.

Bessler's three enemies were named Wagner, Gärtner, and Borlach

I have listed my comments in blue and preceded them with >


German text: Ein Gärtner sey kein Zaun-Abbrecher
A gardener is no fence-breaker **
> Play on words. Gärtner and gardener. Gardens were always enclosed with fences as protection against animals. Bessler had a fence around his wheel to protect it.

German text: Ein Wagner wolle Bohren Löcher
A wainwright wants to [bore/drill] holes **
> Play on words, wainwright and wagons. Borlach and boring.

The avarice is a root evil,
> These evil greedy people were trying to get his secret without paying.

An anvil gets many blows.
> His enemies were attacking him. He implies he's strong as an anvil.

A driver drives. A runner runs. (Fuhrmann - waggoner)
The seer sees. The buyer buys.
> Wagner should hire a driver and wagon and come see the wheel and he could buy it.

The rain drips down, the snow falls;
> Time passes. Seasons change.

The shotgun shoots, The bow twangs;
> The hunt goes on.

Here wanders a great fat herd of
very fat, lazy, plump horses
> Wagner's horses get fat from lack of use.

The flail would rather be
with the thresher than with the scholar
> The flail wants be with the thrasher rather than learn from the scholar. The flail is one of Bessler's three enemies, probably Wagner, and I assume the thrasher is another one the enemies. The scholar is Bessler.

The children playing on the pillars
With nothing but "Schniebe-käulgen";
Schnip-Käulgen are marbles?
> You children have lost your marbles.

Air jumping, feather fencers are
Fast and swiftly like the wind.
> You keep jumping around. (Jumping to conclusions?)

The cunning cat slinks silently along,
And snatches nice juicy mice.
> You think you are cunning and that you will catch my nice juicy secret.

The dog creeps out of his kennel,
just as far as his chain will stretch.
> Your reach is limited. I’m out of your reach.

The beautiful treasures and machines
He knows very friendly to operate;
> You have your own toys and gadgets that you know about.

He waggles too with his tail,
Creeps on his belly through the hoop;
> You would crawl on your belly to get your way.

Therefore soon the droughty pastors (hagard pastors)
Them pretty on the paws are knocking.
> Doing so caused the wheel to be taxed, taking money from my poor pastors.

One sees a wheel, and also no wheel
because their is a rim and also no rim.
> Here Bessler changes the subject a little, and starts talking of his wheel, constructed like a common wood wagon wheel, but without the iron rim.

It runs without inner and outer wheels,
cymbal, weight, wind and mainspring. (terms from organ building)
> The wheel runs without gears, dropping weight, air power, or springs as suggested by Wagner.

Here it is visible half, there it is visible full;
> The wheel has been visibly shown to lift different loads.

It boasts like a peacock's tail.
> The wheel operates beautifully.

It turns to the right and to the left
> The wheel works in either direction.

One may it beckon only with fingers. ( beckon or wave)
> The wheel starts with a light finger push.

It spreads lengthens’ and crosswise’,
> The rope stretches across the room.

Here it is fully, there it is without’
> Runs fully loaded or without load.

A thing consist’t of the three realms;
You have touchable indications,
> The wheel is physical, touchable. Implies there are no ghost or demons turning the wheel as some suggest.

Without’ sulfur, salt, mercury
Also a thing soon past by.
> Without elements, nothing can exist. Wagner criticizes Bessler's statement which said his wheel wasn't turned by falling weights (like clock and such) while it was known that Bessler's wheel contained weights.

The qualities of the elements;
Also each things must consists of.
> Here Bessler speaks of the quality of elements. All elements (including weights) exhibit many qualities. He is saying there are qualities of weights other than weight. Such qualities would be inertial resistance to moving and momentum resistance to stopping.

Saturn, Mars, Jupiter finely
To every war they are willing.
> Bessler's three enemies willing to fight about the meaning of weights.

The thing also, (about which one feeds oneself)
Moves through the bowel, the marrow and the legs;
> Talking about nutriment, the need to be fed. The need to make a living.

A crab creeps ahead and then back
> The wheel turns both ways.

And is healthy (well prepared.)
> And is strong. (As was well explained in the report.)

The rumbling ghosts freely walk
Quite often through locked doors;
> Bessler is fearful his noisy enemies might break into where the wheel is locked up.

Silently, silently, and let's stop,
> Enough talking.

Stop, otherwise the enemy becomes only cute; (otherwise the enemy makes it out)
> Stop, else his enemies might figure it out.

Once you get the 'feel' for what is being said, this part of AP makes sense. There is no hidden meaning in these lines as many forum members have talked of.

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Gill Simo
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Post by Gill Simo »

Nah...with respect Jim, all this is what you imagine the lines might mean. I'm sure every other member could have a stab at it & come up with something just as unconvincing for 15 mins effort.
I'd have a go myself but unfortunately I'd be inclined to connect what's said in some lines, directly to the device I've already submitted, rather than just imagination alone.....& using clues in support of a possible solution isn't allowed here.
And why, with equal respect, are you involving yourself in this now?
You have hit upon a notion of differing motions rather than differing weights & you are entirely correct, according to the device submitted.
So why aren't you pursuing that fine lateral thought rather than attempting to point out that Bessler's odd little verse is no more than some cryptic dig at his enemies?
It hardly helps you, or anyone else really?
As I've suggested elsewhere, if you're bored/stuck, if you've had a fine thought & can find nowhere to lead it, then you need look no further than that device submitted.
rasselasss
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Post by rasselasss »

Jim i include this link it can be seen up until approx. 1724 Fischer von Erlach was really only landscape garden designing his career as an Architect took off later....could he have been having a go at him and not Gartner ?....just a thought...
Last edited by rasselasss on Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rasselasss »

Gill Simo
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Post by Gill Simo »

Ras....ditto, I also disagree clarification is of interest to you.... if you feel that the above in any way defines it.
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re: Comments about AP Part 2, Chapter XLVI

Post by tismooothy »

A thing consist’t of the three realms;You have touchable indications,
> Heat
Without’ sulfur, salt, mercury Also a thing soon past by
> Sulfur-fire, Mercury-expandable bag of mercury MT66 MT67
The thing also, (about which one feeds oneself) Moves through the bowel, the marrow and the legs;
> Blood pressure through arteries, tables of heated mercury lifting weights
A crab creeps ahead and then back
> Piston moving back and forth
The rumbling ghosts freely walk Quite often through locked doors
> Heat from a fireplace can go through locked doors into another room
Bessler let people hold weights only through blanket > Weights hot?
one man examining wheel went on to develop steam engines
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Post by johannesbender »

i can find some of the things in the poem also in the bible
referenced by bessler which makes me believe most
have been correctly translated by jc's translator
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