MT-19 idea

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preoccupied
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MT-19 idea

Post by preoccupied »

I think that the horizontal lever might move against the gears in this drawing. The center right weight lifts the top weight and the bottom left weight. A reason that this might be a working approach to a Bessler Wheel is because the driving weight is not falling faster than the wheel is turning so that it never spins off and explodes. Gravity would always be falling faster than the turn of the wheel in this design. This might be a rule for perpetual motion machines using gravity. The center right weight is at 22.5 degrees and falls turning the top middle weight to 22.5 degrees. The bottom left weight moves from 45 degrees to zero degrees. The right weight falls to 45 degrees. I think that if I measure the distance of the bottom left weight and the right weight that I might discover that it won't work as drawn but I think that the smaller the swing of the weight the closer it would be to breaking even. MT-19 was drawn with a very small swing of the weight.
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re: MT-19 idea

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In this next drawing I propose an MT-19 idea that creates a collision. Perhaps the secret to perpetual motion machines using gravity is causing a weight to fall faster than gravity. I know that I suggested the opposite before.
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re: MT-19 idea

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After the collision a 45 degree turn leads to a little bit of counterbalance where the weight on the right is not as far away from the axle as the weight on the left. But just 22.5 degrees later in red the weight is ready to launch and create a new collision. This is a fun idea. If the collision can turn 67.5 degrees then it would work.
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re: MT-19 idea

Post by daanopperman »

Preoccupied ,

I like your idea , but with a little twist .

In your first drawing , couple the rh side as you did , and couple the lh side separately .
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re: MT-19 idea

Post by daanopperman »

( post got send halfway through typing )

Couple the rh side and the lh side separately as pairs . They are now counter balanced weights , if one wants to go down , it has to lift the other up . When the set on the rh is out at the rim , the other is at the wheel axel .
Because they are counter balanced , it takes less energy to place them where you want than what the OB will supply . Couple them to 2 pendulums to shift them at the right time causing OB . The pendulums will be driven by the OB , on the return the pendulums will move the balanced set of weights to it's desired location .

The good thing about the idea is not to lift weights , but only to displace counter balanced weights to induce OB .

To me , the only way to use gravity to turn the wheel is with counter balanced weights .

Daan .
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re: MT-19 idea

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I want an internal falling weight to push the axle of its own wheel but I cannot. The green gears move a heavy flywheel and the heavy flywheel winds a spring that moves the wheel with the falling weights on it. The weights within the wheel with the falling weights can't move the wheel by the axle with gears. But if it could I think it might be promising. So I'm trying to think of a way around it.
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re: MT-19 idea

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I think that this is the final solution for Bessler's wheel. The search is over folks. The weights fall and push a heavy flywheel and the flywheel turns a spring and the spring turns the wheel with weights on it. I measure that 360 degree turn on the black circle in power on the top half of the falling weights and 360 degree turn on the black circle in power on the bottom half of the falling weights. Each weight is 90 degree turn in power on the black circle's path. The wheel needs to turn four weights 180 degrees. That's 720 degrees total power along the black circle and 720 degrees needed to turn the weights. But it's not really 720 degrees. For 22.5 degrees of the turn there is only two weights on the rising side of the wheel. And again at 67.5 degree of the turn 2 weights disappear again from the rising side. So roughly half of the 720 degrees of turn along the black circle of force is about 360 degree of force to lift 4 weights 180 degrees. Or to lift 4 weights 90 degrees or 2 weights 180 degrees. So lifting 4 weights would absolutely work along the black circles path. Only it's not the black circle's path actually. A path further away where the green lines meet in the corner is the new path. That path is less than twice the path of the black path by enough that I think that I can assume that this might work as a Bessler Wheel design.

I always thought that it was mysterious how Bessler said that weights gain force from their own swinging and the weights apply force to right angles to the axis. If this design works it makes a little bit of sense what he meant. He might have been trying to tell us that the weights apply force to the wheels own axle. Something that requires a work around of steps to make possible, like turning a flywheel that then turns a spring to turn the wheel with weights on it. My previous drawings might not have captured the right angles to the axis rule but this one might. This reminds me of how people have tried to make over unity using spinning weights and electricity. I am adding energy to the system using gravity rather than trying to get more electricity out of a system than I put in.
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re: MT-19 idea

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I want to state my opinion that the clue of bessler saying weights gain momentum from their own swinging means that weights falling turns the wheel rather than overbalances it. To do this you need to turn a heavy flywheel with the weights falling force and the flywheel turns the wheel with the weights on it. A falling weight can't turn its own wheel. But I think what Bessler meant when he said the weights gain force from their own swinging is that the weights apply force to turn the wheel instead of overbalancing it.
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re: MT-19 idea

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This is like the previous drawings. Weights stored image shows where the weight lay before it turns and falls again. The weights fall down into their corners and stay in position until they reach the top. This is extremely over balanced. Take a careful look at this because it's Bessler Wheel. The levers that are falling are twice the distance from their pivot as the weights are from the axle. One weight falling on its pivot 90 degrees should lift one weight being lifted on the wheel 180 degrees. Of course though there is no lifting, instead a heavy fly wheel is turned by the weights falling on their pivot and the heavy flywheel turns the wheel. This follows Bessler's clue that weights gain force from their own swinging. There are four weights falling on their pivot 90 degrees. There are four weights lifting 90 degrees on the wheel. 2 to 1 mechanical advantage. But it's not actually lifting things like a ratio. The falling weights turn a heavy flywheel and the heavy flywheel turns the wheel. Because you can't take levers and move its own wheel.
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re: MT-19 idea

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Check out my YouTube video of my idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl38laaFyCE

Something that I don't know about is whether the lifted weights being further out in the turn makes a difference. The four weights on the bottom left are never at zero degrees. They are always at 45 to 90 degrees in their path. The four long weights that lift the four weights on the bottom left start at 0 degrees and go to 90 degrees or start at 90 degrees and go to 0 degrees. These are different paths because if they had the same path then it would simply be x2 mechanical advantage.

The description in the video says,
The weights fall within the wheel and apply force to its own axle to turn the wheel. The wheel moves and then stops to let the weights fall before moving again. Because weights in a wheel can't apply force to its own axle as a rule it applies force to a heavy flywheel instead. The four weights falling are twice as long as the four weights being lifted. Four weights are being lifted from the bottom left to the top left. At the start of the turn, the weights on the top left and bottom right cancel each other out and are the same distance from the axle.
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re: MT-19 idea

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Lets talk weight balance. The falling weights or driving weights don't show immediate effect. They push against a heavy flywheel or a spring. But am I producing more torque from the driving weights than the lifting weights? Will this design work? The top left weights are balanced by the bottom right weights. So all that I am lifting with the driving weights is the bottom left weights. At its heaviest position the bottom left weights are center of the center horizontally. That position is equivalent in torque to two driving weights positioned horizontally. The driving weights are positioned horizontally two times. So I know that the driving weights can push the lifted weights past their position with the most torque. But I don't know because I don't know how to calculate it whether the rest of the torque is greater for the driving weights because the driving weights have part of their turn very low torque when vertical. If my driving weights are greater than my driven weights I can transfer the power to a heavy flywheel and turn the wheel with the force of the driving weights and the wheel will turn using gravity and springs or flywheel.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain
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