A Perpetual Motion device

[gurangax]

As promised, I'm attaching a simple perpetual motion device. Depending on construction size, it can deliver large power. Have fun with it.

[Tarsier79]

Sorry G. Hydrostatic pressure means that the outlet port must be lower than the inlet.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heron's_fountain

Herons fountain works because of the pressure difference between outlet and inlet.

[gurangax]

clearly you have no idea what the device is or how it works. BTW people have been using this for irrigation in the south east of Asia

[gurangax]

in this video (not mine) clearly shows how the outlet is sent back to the water source (perpetual motion) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KLOvUbvnOU

this one shows the device used for agricultural irrigation in Thailand (not mine)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1mT61agKng

this device can easily replace electrical pump for hidroponic use or can be used for endless water fountain in your garden. you should try this sometimes, very easy to build and best of all it proves PM that can do usable work, yet it doesn't break any physic laws

[Tarsier79]

Since I can't speak Thai, I found a reference to one of G's links. It refers to the pump in question and calls it a "ram pump". A quick explanation of its workings is also in Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_ram

Information gleaned from the wiki: The pump does not return the waste water to the original position, or with the original energy, depending if they are using flow or head to power the device. Typical efficiency is around 60-80%. The device is not perpetual motion. It is perfect for use in agriculture where certain circumstances exist.

Here is a video in english: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9W0zx2D7aU

I am interested to hear/see any information to the contrary.

[gurangax]

Please... I know what a RAM pump is, this is a different device altogether, what you saw a RAM pump being used there is just the extension from the tank so that the water can be pumped even higher. There is no need for the RAM pump. You saw a bigger sized PVC anywhere between the tank and the outlet this is where the air bubbles will escape since it is no good for bubbles to be in the pipe. BTW a ram pump needs to be lower than the water source/inlet, which is not the case here.

BTW im don't speak Thai either

[gurangax]

another video link, no RAM pump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqoAvRpZzUs

when you have free time try building one, it's not that hard

[Tarsier79]

You have linked 3 videos.

1st video: not enough information, no diagrams.

2nd video: at around 2 min in, the diagram he draws appears to have components that look suspiciously like a ram pump, but they do seem to appear in the wrong order.

3rd video: In Youtube, click the "show more" button. The last video states it is a ram pump.

What is your PDF design based on? Have you built it yourself? If built the way your PDF is drawn, I am absolutely sure it cannot operate.

[AB Hammer]

Tarsier79

Even though I wouldn't go as far a calling it perpetual. RAM pumps are very efficient and useful.

[gurangax]

I don't want to repeat myself. In my pdf should be enough information, it is just basic plumbing, nothing special. Just use pvc pipes. Have you any idea how pressure acts upon the surface of liquids. hydraulic principle applies. vaccum pressure can not suck the bigger surface (water inside tank has greater surface area), the lesser surface (inlet pipe surface area) will lose over and getting sucked into the tank. the outlet wont be affected much by the vaccum inside of the tank because it has no contact at all with the vacuum. And once the vaccum has accumulated enough to balance atmospheric pressure, the outlet will run like a normal tank would. Something unique is happening here(pressure normalisation), and the height between the foot valve and water outlet doesnt make any difference now. Its made possible by gravity. The power of vaccum is great, it can destroy your tank if it has any weakness.

Please build it and see for yourself. At first I was not able to comprehend this, but I have it running and have understanding. BTW I have 2 PM devices, both are gravity driven.

[gurangax]

Let me repeat this again. It is not a RAM pump

[gurangax]

If you really need to see the construction step by step then this video should be sufficient, in my pdf it is a bit different because that is my design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJA6QxSFvjE

[Tarsier79]

G. I understand a lot, but admittedly not everything about hydrostatics. The larger height of the input will have a much larger pressure differential than the output, and when primed, will try to suck the water down to the source. Any flap/ check valve may stop this from happening, but will not force the water 8n the other direction. It will not work, and I call BS on you having a real life version of the pdf design actually working.

AB. I don't disagree with you. The ram pump is a beautiful and brilliant solution for irrigation in the right circumstances, as would G's pump be, if it worked.

[rlortie]

Mother nature plays an important role by exerting only 14.7 psi on any body of water at sea level. This limits the suction head of centrifugal pumps to 33.9 feet. However, this would only be obtained if we could achieve a perfect vacuum in the pump. In reality, the suction head of centrifugal pumps is limited to about 26 feet. Pump performance (capacity or pressure) is highest when the pump is operated close to the water's surface. Increasing the suction head will DECREASE the discharge head and consequently the discharge capacity of the pump. Most importantly, suction head should be kept to the smallest value possible to reduce the likelihood of cavitation. Cavitation can also occur if the suction hose is restricted. Never use a suction hose with a smaller diameter than the suction port. Cavitation can quickly damage a pump.

Edited to add: http://www.pumpschool.com/applications/npsh.pdf

[gurangax]

Do a real life experiment