Using up and down swinging

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jonnynet
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Using up and down swinging

Post by jonnynet »

We know that, if we move mass along the y-axis within a wheel, this doesn't influence its torque. To ensure the understanding, here two links to demonstrative video animations:

https://youtu.be/CrsvNV9FgPs
https://youtu.be/1nukWuMGrkY

I thought about using the weight's motion along the Y-axis for shifting other weights. To get this motion, we could use inertia. Here's another link to what I mean:

https://youtu.be/q4kTXB2Zv6k

The difficulty would be to get the timings right. One up and down motion per revolution to actuate a lever for resetting the other weights:

https://youtu.be/NAykWJTaQMk

Please note that the last animation is just to show the principle. Sure, it will be hard to arrange everything properly, while having the right timing.
Also the shape of the lever does have a meaning and has to be come together at a good point.

What do you think about this concept?
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Fcdriver
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Post by Fcdriver »

Odd just far off computers get actual movements!
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thx4
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re: Using up and down swinging

Post by thx4 »

Hello Jonnynet,
A lot of idea lol
In Figure 13_1, normally everything stops at 3h / 9h after a certain time ...
In Fig. 13_3 and 13_4, if a spring is capable of raising the mass, why will it let it fall, like after a certain time ...
It's nice to keep looking, from my point of view there are several answers.
jonnynet
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re: Using up and down swinging

Post by jonnynet »

All pictures are showing portions of the same concept. 13_1 and 13_2 represent the wheel in a balanced state. But the weights there can change their height (along the defined line) while the wheel remains in balance. That changing of height (in form of an up and down swinging one) is what I want to use for shifting weights that finally drive the wheel. 13_3 then is a suggestion, how such a swinging weight could look like. Of course, the simulation doesn't look real. I had trouble to find a good timing and the spring is set to a very high damping rate, which may not quite realistic for a usual spring. In addition the simulation speed wasn't set to realtime.

However, when the weight is moving upwards by the wheel's rotation, the spring should become more compressed and partly releases when moving downwards. The moment, when some suitable shaped bar attached to it has a greater distance to the axle, a lever could slip through underneath and should actuated by that bar, when the same comes down. That, finally, could shift "driver-weights" without losing torque for the desired direction.
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Post by john.smith »

deleted post was going to ask for a favor and decided it's best that I don't.
jonnynet
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re: Using up and down swinging

Post by jonnynet »

Ok, your decision. I was on the verge to PM you!
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re: Using up and down swinging

Post by sleepy »

very unique idea and thanks for sharing. But if the weight is heavy enough to compress the spring,won't it be too heavy for the spring to lift?
Trying to turn the spinning in my brain into something useful before moving on to the next life.
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Re: re: Using up and down swinging

Post by john.smith »

jonnynet wrote:Ok, your decision. I was on the verge to PM you!
I have been trying to simplify the design. I have been posting in an Australian forum. Haven't heard from any skeptics and it's a wood working forum. Go figure.
Myself I think Bessler used 2 different tricks. The link is to the page where I link his quote from this website. That'll give you a good idea of what I've been pursuing.
www.woodworkforums.com/f289/besslers-wh ... %27s+wheel
jonnynet
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Post by jonnynet »

@sleepy
Thank you too. The spring isn't intended for lifting the weight. It supports its swinging in the Y-direction. Compression and decompression happens because of inertia, when the axle moves in the Y-direction. So the basic requirement for the concept to work is that the wheel rotates fast enough - assuming that the axle with the spring-suspended weight moves around the wheel's main shaft.

@john.smith
I really would like to create a simulation of your concept but still not able to interpret the workings.
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Post by Fcdriver »

The spring works similar to the spring on a window balance, or a garage door! Both the window and the garage door weigh the exact same before a spring is installed, but they are easier to move, with a spring! No it does not totally lift, but it does reduce the cost of lift, or shifting of the weight! The weight still effects the wheel by its full effect, but it is easier to move, because of the spring!
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eccentrically1
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Post by eccentrically1 »

But if you turn the window or garage door upside down and shift them, what happens to the window/door and spring relationship?
jonnynet
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Post by jonnynet »

@Fcdriver
Absolutely! That's ok because the spring-suspended weight isn't placed for moving the wheel directly, as I mentioned.

@eccentrically1
It remains the same!?

I'll see if I can do another drawing of a complete setup to demonstrate what I am looking for.
jonnynet
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re: Using up and down swinging

Post by jonnynet »

Still no complete setup but at least an arrangement that shows how the spring-mounted pendulum weight should operate installed on a wheel's periphery and how it comes together with a lever that could then shift weights for driving the wheel (again, not shown in this animation).

https://youtu.be/EW04NWaz0O4

Unfortunately it's quite difficult to synchronize everything right and it should be really complicated to drive the wheel by displaced weights in perfect speed to maintain the proper operation of the pendulum spring-mounted pendulumn weight. The spring has to be configured to oscillate 2 times per revolution because for weight-shifting we would need to actuate 2 levers in that period.

To not produce counter torque when actuating the levers the point of contact on the pendulum bar is very important and must be on the right side. Otherwise the pendulum would be supported to stay longer on the left side.
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re: Using up and down swinging

Post by john.smith »

The grindstone rotates with the pendulum when it shouldn't. A spring might make it more efficient. It could rotate a wheel in one direction as shown.
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