A second fix point?

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frabarn
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re: A second fix point?

Post by frabarn »

Ralph
I am very interested in learning more about the information you imparted. I would like to discuss this in greater depth if you know someway we can communicate safely.

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re: A second fix point?

Post by rlortie »

frabarn,

I have reviewed your 16 posts on this forum, the following quotes leaves me in a quandary?
I have applied for and have received 5 patents over the last 25 years. I would definitely look for a competent lawyer. A well written patent is worth its weight in gold. I once testified for my patent lawyer in a case where 6 patents were arguing that theirs was the relevant one. The other 5 patents had $100,000 or more of work but the drafter did not understand what they had. Our patent involved only $10,000 but because of my understanding of physic and the way it was written we won. So they lost millions in time and money.
This does not sound like the same person who recently wrote:
I don't have it out there saving the world be cause 1] I had a heart attack and am now confined to a wheelchair, which makes cleaning it up for presentation difficult. 2] I can't drive and with no family or friends living have no way to visit a patent lawyer. 3} I am 70 years old living on SS [780.00 a month] so cant hire someone to help. And finally I cant afford to file a patent anyway.
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Post by eccentrically1 »

Pseudonyms?
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re: A second fix point?

Post by rlortie »

wow!

physidonim - pseudonym; I really messed that one up! Stand scratching my head as my spell checker did not catch it.

Thanks for the correction!
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Re: re: A second fix point?

Post by ovaron »

rlortie wrote:raj,

The answers are; Yes, yes, and yes!

Take a look at the AP depiction and note the axle, my build is made up of three individual axles with one of them being split, and one that terminates inside the outer discs.

The outer axle is the split, half turns 360 with the drum and the other half only turns 180 degrees.

Ralph
This "different axles" have all their center in the middle of the wheel. All "fix points" are therefore in the center of the wheel, that means they have the same geometrical axis. My understanding of rajs question is different. All his designs with a wheel inside a wheel have two different (geometrical) axles. This is only possible when you have a artificial horizon inside the wheel, like in MT !3. There you have the possibility to mount a second "fix point" wherever you want. (In reality it isn't a "fix point", because the horizon has his fix point also in the center of the wheel and can therefore move back and forth like a pendulum)
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re: A second fix point?

Post by rlortie »

ovaron,

I guess only raj can clarify this. i agree that most of his ideas call for a second axle outside the center of axis. But when he posted the question he did not specify exactly what he had in mind.

It takes a little more ingenuity to have a dead axle inside a rotating one, but it can be done by fixing the dead axle to one of the stanchions supporting the machine, this means splitting the live axle inside the drum. The drum is supported by bushings/bearings and the outer rim, thus allowing access to the dead axle in the center.

Not unlike a crankshaft that does not turn, one can add the length of throw required to install a second wheel. The longer the throw, the larger the second wheel or gear can be applied.

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re: A second fix point?

Post by rlortie »

Raj,

Open your thread; "A working wheel is only days away!" page #4 and you will see pictures of my split axle design. Posted: Mon May 20, 2013. I cannot believe it has been that long ago, and I am still not finished with it.

It has not changed much other than go from four feet diameter to six feet! Note the front showing a hub and 3/4" stub axle removed from a front load clothes dryer. The back shows the stationary 4-1/4" pipe axle.

Inside the large pipe is the thick walled steel pipe giving the machine rigid support. inside of this is another 1/2" plastic pipe.

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re: A second fix point?

Post by raj »

It is not easy to be explicit when one is framing a concept only in the mind.

Without much ado, this is what I had in mind.

1 is a drum wheel.
2 is inner rim of 1, rotating on both 3.
3 are two separate horizontal axles: the upper one is broken, and the
lower complete.
4 are two separate smaller inner wheel, rotating on lower axle 3.
5 are identical strings connecting rims of both inner wheels separately to
outer rim of drum wheel at 45 degrees intervals so that all wheels
rotate at the same speed.
6 are weights.
7 are identical levers with weights 6 on ends, pivoting on either side of
inner wheels, one pair diametrically opposite.
8 are identical strings connecting weights on levers to outer rim of 1.

As the drum wheel and the two inner wheels rotate at the same speed, weights will move further from the centre on the descending side and nearer the centre on the ascending side of wheels.

The gif animation is from MARCELLO E.
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Auto Wheel ( on two separate axles)  drawing - 160417.jpg
Wheel on two axles 160417.jpg
raj080315-chord.gif
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re: A second fix point?

Post by agor95 »

That is a nice concept.

I appreciate you have limited resources.

May I recommend three additions.

The inner wheel, when running, has a rotation bias.

1. That is good if the inner and outer wheel are made of hard material.
The outer rim light but with a slight pressure between the two.
2. The weights knock each other around axle; That is good

3. I am confident you can see that a last weight could be caught.
A free pendulum on the axle to push it out would be good.

Good Work

Regards
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re: A second fix point?

Post by rlortie »

raj,

I too applaud your ingenuity using limited resources. Your drum #1 appears to be the front and back shield from a portable fan! Unfortunately it lacks a centered axis.

What you have presented is very feasible using a split live and dead axle/journal combination. One thing that bothers me most is width, it appears that the weights must be spread to keep the ropes from entangling themselves.

You state that the inner and outer wheels must turn at the same speed. Having different circumferences I believe what you mean is they must both turn at the same RPM. I suggest if built use matching bicycle sprockets and chain for a slip proof 1:1 ratio.

Having spent some time watching Marcello's* animation, I am not decisive as it being another width for height scenario?

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re: A second fix point?

Post by ME »

There's a static image on this page (perhaps easier on the eyes): http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... &start=780
That same page shows a photo of Raj's previous split axle method.
Marchello E.
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re: A second fix point?

Post by sleepy »

Once again Raj,beautiful design. But I must point out that there is only ever 1 drive weight,and it is only active from 2 until 4 o'clock.And in that short amount of time it is expected to move 3 ascending weights and both wheels. If you could somehow get the drive weight to swing out earlier,perhaps with a push from the next weight coming back to center,it would have a better chance. If the weights were shaped like eggs or teardrops,they would not be able to nest so tightly in the center and would hopefully move out to the drive position sooner.Maybe all of the weights could be tethered together and each could activate the next without waiting for it to be in position.
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re: A second fix point?

Post by raj »

@Sleepy.

At any given time of rotation, there will be TWO weights swinging downwards (one from the 12 o'clock pivot and one from 45 degrees pivot) further from axle/s, two weights being pulled upwards nearer to axles and four weights resting/moving close to axle.

Hopefully each pair of diametrically opposite swinging weights will be in separate vertical plain/compartment.

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re: A second fix point?

Post by raj »

I desperately need your honest answer to my question below:

Which direction will the wheel in the drawing below turn, however small distance???

Posted from Romford Essex UK

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re: A second fix point?

Post by Andyb »

Two to four degrees clockwise i recon ,what about sticking magnets on a metal back plate you will find out for sure ,all the best Andyb
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