The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

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preoccupied
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Re: re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by preoccupied »

Raj I hope you are on the same page as me, in that all of the driving force is going downward and that the actions that are driving the wheel are the angles of the levers that are pushing in on the inner wheel. I think there is not special torque from those pendulums by them being pendulums. I think the good in what you've shown us is that the weights can share a point on an inner circle and suspended by pulleys. I believe there is potential though in positioning the pendulums in the way that I described using pulleys. If you make a drawing for me with distances written in maybe we can work together to find the best angles for lifting up the weights and do some math to prove it. Do you wanna?

raj wrote:Preoccupied, you have just touch a very vital point that I have tried to explain all along this thread.

So let me repeat myself for the nth time:
We have a mechanical system connecting a wheel with a pendulum or two pendulums, in such a way that they move in unison, the wheel rotates and the pendulum/s swing.
The wheel apply some force to help the upwards swing of the pendulum/s and in return, the pendulums apply some force on their downwards swing to help wheel continue rotating on the descending side.

Now, if the forces applied by the wheel and the pendulum/s are equal, everything WILL STOP.

But if we can, by some special mechanical arrangement, make the forces unequal, then we will have, what I am calling asymmetry of force,motion and torque which will affect angular momentum and MoI.

I do not understand why some of you are taking my proposal as mere nonsense.

It may be non-scientific reasoning but certainly, not non-sense.

Raj
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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by ovyyus »

ME wrote:Which assumption can be proven false...and how?
Neither. But that doesn't seem to stop some from inventing 'facts' in order to support their personal agenda. Hiding something in a box (or wheel) doesn't make it unknown to science, unless there's a premature conclusion about what might be inside the box. Raj pretends to know what's inside the box without knowing what's inside the box. He then uses that pretence to attack science and education. Duh!
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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by preoccupied »

Without looking at a drawing and measurements, I think that the sweet spot is opposite corners of the circle. So top right start lifting the and bottom left start lowering it for example. It would be lowered to be perpendicular to the rim of the wheel and the other weight lifted to be parallel to the wheel. A parallel position to the periphery line. The top and bottom corner of the inner wheel will be the part of the circle that changes how quickly the curve of the circle goes up or down. Like before the corner there on the top right, to the left the angle of the circle is more horizontal leaning and after the corner it's more horizontal leaning. The weights are lifting and falling so because the inner wheel is moving in the opposite direction it works for us that the circle is at an angle after these corners to fall or rise faster. The falling weight should provide equivalent force as the weight being lifted, so possibly only a bit of extra energy is needed from the existing rotation on the wheel using a pulley system. This seems like a good idea because a driving weight is replacing a counter weight and the action of shifting the weight is nearly balanced because one weight falls to reach its position and one weight rises to reach its position. Bessler had a large pendulum outside of his wheel, well that could be run by a spring maybe like on a grandfather clock and the large pendulum could provide the small amount of energy needed to push the two weights into position. I think that I see that it would need extra help from the pendulum. It won't fall in place without extra force added, but in this particular idea I believe that the energy gained after the energy put in would be greater than the energy put in because a driving weight is replacing a counter weight by shifting two weights that are balancing themselves out on a pulley. I think what I see is that it might shift a little but not reach an optimal position without extra help and maybe it's super close to that optimal position, like sort of how I think that the Cole mechanism (Cole mechanism isn't that right? With the spinning weights on the gears just by tapping it slightly with the finger.) always looked like it was on the edge of that optimal position. I don't feel overly happy about my analysis but I do like the idea.
Last edited by preoccupied on Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

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ovyyus wrote:But you still don't know what was inside Bessler's wheel so you still can't know what energy source made it turn. What happens to your belief in PM if Bessler's wheel didn't go against known science?


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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by ovyyus »

Some claim the pendulums and various loads were part of the operating principle, even though the wheel turned happily without them attached. Another example of making up 'facts' to suit an agenda.
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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by preoccupied »

I did make that up to suit my explanation. I'm sure you're referring to Raj though. I think that large pendulum such as in the image at the top right of this website window that I'm looking at right now on this website was part of Bessler's Wheel operating principle. I think that even that there could be sliding horizontal gear that catches on the gears of the pulleys and that it would look sort of like a sliding sideways ladder, like a climbing ladder but sideways and it would catch on the gears, the gears would have partial gear teeth and catch only when they are supposed to on the sliding ladder. The sliding mechanism would be moved back and forth by the pendulum.
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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by ovyyus »

Bessler said the pendulums could be optionally attached for speed regulation. Witnesses reported the wheel operated just fine without pendulums or loads attached. Making up nonsense doesn't help anyone.
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Post by Fcdriver »

I have not seen anything about a wheel working without stompers, or nothing attached? Where is this stated, by witnesses?
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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by ovyyus »

At least do some research before making up nonsense. Lazy.
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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by raj »

Ovyyus,
Where are your proofs to back up every things you are, obviously spewing?

Don't do onto others what you don't want others do onto you!!!

I, for one, only explaining my thoughts, in details with drawings, about what Bessler MAY have kept secret about his wheel, as part of my RESEARCH.

It is you who brought up SCIENCE and scientific laws into this debate to prove me wrong.

I am trying to look into the UNKNOWN, outside the realm of science, and as such, I am not giving a hoot to scientific laws FOR NOW, because they are hindering my thought process to step forward in this UNKNOWN.

So prove me wrong without referring to the laws of thermodynamics.
Prove me wrongs with your own explanations and facts.

If you followed this thread from the start, you must know, by now, that my main proposal is my idea of a mechanical system whereby there would be asymmetry of forces, time and torques to affect angular momentum, and MoI for continued motion.
I am using Bessler's wheel as a study to see if my proposals can be applied there.

Then it will be a fair debate.

Raj
Last edited by raj on Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by Fcdriver »

ovyyus wrote:At least do some research before making up nonsense. Lazy.
Just because they moved the wheel to another set of axles, does not mean there were no stompers or pendulum.
Just because the drawings show both stompers, and water wheel together, does not mean both were operating at the same time.
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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by John Collins »

Ovvyus doesn't have to prove anything, he is sticking to the facts.

Also the wheel was described as spinning freely as well as underload when lifting a heavy bucket. Spinning freely meant it was not attached to stompers, do not doing work. And not a single witness over a period of several years ever described the presence of any pendulums.

The stompers were in the drawing to show potential uses for the wheel.

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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by ovyyus »

Raj wrote:It is you who brought up SCIENCE and scientific laws into this debate...
No. It was you who claimed...
Raj wrote:The wheel goes against KNOWN science.
The wheel MAY be found, only if we ignore known science
To which my response was that you don't know what was inside Bessler's wheel and therefore you can't know that it goes against science. You then claimed that only by ignoring science will this mystery be solved - still not knowing what was inside Bessler's wheel! Duh.

I think your sharing and open approach is very commendable. Don't stop.
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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by raj »

Thank you Ovyuus!

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re: The secret behind Bessler's wheel...

Post by raj »

I have made some more changes to the shape of the pendulums.

Here we have a set of drawings, which I hope may convey my concept of asymmetry of force, torque and time, which could affect angular momentum and MoI, only if the concept works.

The drawings are visually self-explanatory.

Raj
Attachments
Auto Gravity Pendulums Powered Wheels- drawing- 3(4)- 230717.jpg
Auto Gravity Pendulums Powered Wheels- drawing- 3(3)- 230717.jpg
Auto Gravity Pendulums Powered Wheels- drawing- 3(2)- 230717.jpg
Auto Gravity Pendulums Powered Wheels- drawing- 3(1)- 230717.jpg
Auto Gravity Pendulums Powered Wheels- drawing- 3- 230717.jpg
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