Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by daxwc »

Wouldn't you consider water in the bellows weights?
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by rlortie »

I would most certainly consider water in the bellows as weights! If not I have been living in a fantasy land inside Willie Wonka's chocolate land far to long!

water weighs
Pounds Grams Kilograms
Cubic cm. 0.002205 1 0.001
Cubic inch 0.036127 16.387064 0.0163871
Liter 2.204684 1000.028 1.000028
Gallon 8.345404 3785.4118 3.7854118
Cubic foot 62.42796 28316.847 28.316847
If my design proves fruitful using water, I plan to exchange it for a sugar beet extract that weighs 10.7 to 11 pounds per gallon.
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by ME »

eccentrically1 wrote:I've tried to find the relationship between pressure and power, but I've hit a wall. Pascals is the unit of pressure, but what is the conversion to power (horses, watts)?
Pressure (p): [Pa] = [N/m²] = [J/m³]
Power (P): [W] = [J/s]

The difference is Volume per second, [m³/s]
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Re: re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by eccentrically1 »

daxwc wrote:Wouldn't you consider water in the bellows weights?
I was replying to daan and ovyyus' comments about bessler saying he could make his wheels without weights. I assume he meant metal weights.
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by daxwc »

That was my point. By using water he could effectively say he wasn't using weights.
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by ovyyus »

An energy source doesn't always rely on weights.
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by daxwc »

So we have one point where he says he doesn’t need weights and another where he says the motive force is coming from the weights. So in my opinion he is playing semantics, word games and add that with a dash of translation errors with living language creep.
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by daanopperman »

It is of my opinion that when Bessler said he could make his wheels without weights ,, that the prime mover did not contain or utilize any weights .
He did not go into detail of how this could be done , but once you have it many variants of weightless wheels could be built . The first wheel contained only one prime mover and it turned very slow , for that to happen and not accelerate means there must have been more than one puls during a full rotation . If it was a ob wheel , the wheel would have a linear acceleration after overcoming friction .
If you had a solid wheel , it would have been easier to move a hole which have no weight as to a weight to cause ob .
The whole idea to have a prime mover is to amplify your effort , once you have it you can then tention springs or compress air onboard , without storing it precompressed which is what his critic's claim he have done .
To vacuum a 1cubic ft bellows does not need more FORCE than 1cubic meter bellows , but the area makes for a huge difference for the atmospheric pressure to work on .
Bessler was a apprentice organ builder , and I have no doubt that he knew how to utilize moving air .
Air has very little or almost zero weight difference between ground level and 3 meters up , an ideal substance to work with in a environment where you are surrounded with the same medium you work with . The potential energy does not come from gravity or velocity , but the removal of the medium itself . 16 Horses could not separate the vaccum vessel , but could they have caused the vacuum in the first place .
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by daanopperman »

In a ob wheel , If you place the same mechanism in 2 different wheels , one 1m in dia and one 3 m in dia , they will yield the same power .
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by eccentrically1 »

In one place he said he could make his wheels without weights but on another occasion he said the weights "derived their motive force from the pm principle". To me, that means the weights are not " the essential parts, and constitute the perpetual motion itself ".
He is contradicting himself.
Weight by itself can't be PM, even if using either definition of PM, modern or 1600's. If we take the definition of PM that was in use at that time, his PM principle had to have been akin to Cox's clock, using a thermal/pressure gradient, and has been suggested earlier, possibly using bellows and amplifying the effect with its own dynamic motion.
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by daanopperman »

The only problem with barometric change is it shappens over a time span of + - 1 - 2 hours , and last the same duration , the frequency of occurrence and the density of energy from it is to low . if you had to use it you would have to built a separate receiver to drive a much smaller bonsai .
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Post by daanopperman »

Interesting read ,
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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by Sam Peppiatt »

To all,

Sure he used weights! How could you have an OB wheel without weights?
Like it or not, you have to figure out how to make it work on gravity.

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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by John Collins »

My thoughts exactly Sam.

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re: Landgraf Karl von Hessen-Kassel

Post by Sam Peppiatt »

Thanks John Collins!!

Thanks for your support; I thought I would catch hell for sure!
Now if I just knew how to do it-----------------------------------

Sam

PS I'd give you a green dot, if I knew how.
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