This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

It's not premature chicken counting that is the new norm. The norm now, is just wishful thinking that the last egg your infertile hen laid, will hatch the elusive GOLDEN chick.

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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

I hope I am not offending forum members with my unbaked ideas.

Here is my Auto Wheel concept, showing my basic ideas, this time closer to MT137, as I announced some 2/3 weeks ago.

Now. the Auto Wheel concept consists of:
1. A drum wheel, as usual.
2. An octagonal rim/wheel inside an 8 pointed star.
3. A single disc/weight resting/rolling on inner octagonal rim.
4. Eight springs, each connected to axle of disc/weight at one ends, and connected to inner rim of drum wheel at 45 degrees intervals at other ends.

Suffice it to say that each spring has ELASTIC potential energy, by design, the top ones have more EPe than the lower ones.

The drawing showing the wheel in a balanced state.

What I am expecting here, is that once one off external force is applied, the drum wheel will rotate, moving the springs with it.

The spring at the 12 o'clock position have the highest EPE, and while moving towards the descending side, it will pull on the disc/weight, transferring its EPE to KE to the Disc Weight, which will impact on the octagonal wheel, thereby providing torque to the drum wheel to rotate.

The basic idea here is that all springs moving downwards from 12 to 6 o'clock position, on the descending side will keep pulling the disc/weights to roll towards the descending side, providing torque, losing some of their EPE, while all springs moving upwards , will gain EPE slowly, as they move from 6 to 12 o'clock.

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Auto Wheel - 020218......... UK patent application - drawing .jpg
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

Auto Wheel basic Single Disc Weight and SPRINGS Only concept initial idea testing:

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11...Auto Wheel - Single Disc Weight- and Springs only - basic idea testing 040218.jpg
11...Auto Wheel - Single Disc Weight- and Springs only - basic idea testing 040218 ...2.jpg
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

NO COMMENTS?

Nice!

Now Bessler's MT137 looks ALIVE!

A bunch of springs will keep pulling and turning the DISC weight and the drum wheel to rotate clockwise.

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Auto Wheel - 060218......... drawing for BW.jpg
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

Can anybody on this forum see anything from this Bessler's explanation about the workings of his wheel:

"Around the firmly placed horizontal axis is a rotating disc (low or narrow) which resembles a grindstone. This disc can be called the principle piece of my machine ",

in my Auto Wheel current design.

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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by rlortie »

raj,

The following was written by:(pseudonym) "Al Bacon", translated by Ted of Chicago. This is another interpretation and is not found in any of Johns books to my knowledge, as such it has been ignored by many here.

Al Bacon, whom as I understand by real name was of great help in recovering the historical facts leading to John Collins books and Bill's MT drawings. He also patented MT-137 Please correct me if I am wrong!

Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orrffyreanum

Except for a small change in the external dimensions of the wheel for raising weights (or so-called "running wheel"), I have organized everything together in accordance with those structures of the previous machine which I had broken to pieces. These small changes occurred by chance and do not need to be defended.
Around the firmly placed horizontal axis is a rotating disc (or lower cylinder) which resembles a grindstone. This disc can be called the principle piece of my machine. Accordingly, this wheel consists of an external wheel (or drum) for raising weights which is covered with stretched linen. The base of the cylinder is 12 Rhenish feet in diameter. The height (or thickness) is between 15 and 18 inches. The axle (or shaft) passing through the center is 6 feet long and 8 inches thick cross-sectionally.
While in motion it is supported by two almost one-inch-thick tapered steel pegs, whose two bearings (or sockets) with two curves around the axle provide the rotational motion of the whole vertically suspended wheel through application of pendula, which can be somewhat modified, as the attached figures at the end of this treatise clearly show.
The internal structure of this drum (or wheel) consists of weights arranged according to several a priori, that is, scientifically demonstrable, laws of mechanical perpetual motion. After the wheel completes a single rotation, or after a single force is applied to the wheel, the motion drives the wheel unceasingly. As long as the wheel’s whole structure does not change, the wheel continues its revolutions without any further assistance from external motive power. Other automatic machines, such as clockwork, springs, and hoisting weights, necessarily require an external restoring force.
The upper weight is not attached to an external mechanism, nor does it rely on external moving bodies by means of whose weight revolutions continue as long as the cords or chains on which they hang permit. As long as it remains outside the center of gravity, this upper weight incessantly exercises universal motion from which the essential constituent parts of the machine receive power and push. These parts are enclosed in a case and are coordinated with one another so that they not only never again reach an equilibrium (or point of rest) for themselves but incessantly seek with their admirably fast swing to move and drive on the axis of their vortices loads that are vertically applied from the outside and are proportional to the size of the housing.
The mechanical wheel not only bears the name of the long sought perpetual motion machine; it deserves to be named for such motion. It uses one of the best known implements for mechanical power, namely, a true circular wheel which rotates about its central axis.
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

Thanks a lot, Ralph.

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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

Easier to follow motion, once an initial force is applied.

See in here,( in RED ink, showing other ways, springs can be used), JC's very first drawing posted by Scott on this forum.

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Auto Wheel - 070218......... drawing for BW.jpg
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

Letting imagination run WILD!

Single Disc/weight resting, rolling freely between identical springs connected to diametrically opposite pivots on inside rim of drum wheel at 45 degrees intervals.

The disc/weight is expected to beat latency, and roll with or ahead of drum wheel, once initial force is applied.

Hello MT137, what have you to say?

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Auto Wheel - 070218  - drawing  - Disc weight berween pairs of springs.jpg
Mt_137.jpg
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Re: re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by Fcdriver »

rlortie wrote:raj,

The following was written by:(pseudonym) "Al Bacon", translated by Ted of Chicago. This is another interpretation and is not found in any of Johns books to my knowledge, as such it has been ignored by many here.

Al Bacon, whom as I understand by real name was of great help in recovering the historical facts leading to John Collins books and Bill's MT drawings. He also patented MT-137 Please correct me if I am wrong!

Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orrffyreanum

Except for a small change in the external dimensions of the wheel for raising weights (or so-called "running wheel"), I have organized everything together in accordance with those structures of the previous machine which I had broken to pieces. These small changes occurred by chance and do not need to be defended.
Around the firmly placed horizontal axis is a rotating disc (or lower cylinder) which resembles a grindstone. This disc can be called the principle piece of my machine. Accordingly, this wheel consists of an external wheel (or drum) for raising weights which is covered with stretched linen. The base of the cylinder is 12 Rhenish feet in diameter. The height (or thickness) is between 15 and 18 inches. The axle (or shaft) passing through the center is 6 feet long and 8 inches thick cross-sectionally.
While in motion it is supported by two almost one-inch-thick tapered steel pegs, whose two bearings (or sockets) with two curves around the axle provide the rotational motion of the whole vertically suspended wheel through application of pendula, which can be somewhat modified, as the attached figures at the end of this treatise clearly show.
The internal structure of this drum (or wheel) consists of weights arranged according to several a priori, that is, scientifically demonstrable, laws of mechanical perpetual motion. After the wheel completes a single rotation, or after a single force is applied to the wheel, the motion drives the wheel unceasingly. As long as the wheel’s whole structure does not change, the wheel continues its revolutions without any further assistance from external motive power. Other automatic machines, such as clockwork, springs, and hoisting weights, necessarily require an external restoring force.
The upper weight is not attached to an external mechanism, nor does it rely on external moving bodies by means of whose weight revolutions continue as long as the cords or chains on which they hang permit. As long as it remains outside the center of gravity, this upper weight incessantly exercises universal motion from which the essential constituent parts of the machine receive power and push. These parts are enclosed in a case and are coordinated with one another so that they not only never again reach an equilibrium (or point of rest) for themselves but incessantly seek with their admirably fast swing to move and drive on the axis of their vortices loads that are vertically applied from the outside and are proportional to the size of the housing.
The mechanical wheel not only bears the name of the long sought perpetual motion machine; it deserves to be named for such motion. It uses one of the best known implements for mechanical power, namely, a true circular wheel which rotates about its central axis.

The upper weight is not attached to an external mechanism, nor does it rely on external moving bodies by means of whose weight revolutions continue as long as the cords or chains on which they hang permit.

Does this define the lower weight, as being different than the upper weight?
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Post by Fcdriver »

These parts are enclosed in a case and are coordinated with one another so that they not only never again reach an equilibrium (or point of rest) for themselves but incessantly seek with their admirably fast swing to move and drive on the axis of their vortices loads that are vertically applied from the outside and are proportional to the size of the housing.


Lower weight? Is this a sum total, meaning as a whole are lifted, from the outside source proportional to the housing?
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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by rlortie »

If you wish to take note of this translation,focus on the following excerpt:
but incessantly seek with their admirably fast swing to move and drive on the axis of their vortices loads that are vertically applied from the outside and are proportional to the size of the housing.
Does each weight have its own circular path creating individual vortex around its own axis?

Outside force: What can it be other than Gravity?

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re: This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

Post by raj »

" PUT the Horse in front of the cart"

This is the soundest and most logical advice that Bessler could have given us.

My greatest problem has been with ALL my wheel designs, deciding what would be my wheel's main function? : the horse or the cart?
I have never been able to find an plausible answer.

I have now concluded that our horse and our cart must be an engine and a flywheel: Two systems that connects and unconnects when required, so that when the engine stops due to zero torque, the flywheel will continue until engine pick up torque again.

I have, this afternoon, found the engine and the flywheel, that is the horse and cart in my AUTO Wheel concept, still based on MT137.

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Post by Fcdriver »

I take it as anything working against rotation, first forces lift more than against rotation, lifting the net sum, or case of individual weights, that cause rotation. Meaning lift is done from 10:00 to 2:00 not 8:00 to 10:00.
Outside forses being stomper, bucket of rocks, water wheel! This is why they work as pulses, and not continuous.
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Post by eccentrically1 »

@ all

That's not right. The loads (rocks, stampers, water screw) are vertically applied to the axle for the weight motion to lift them. I seem to remember Al Bacon's translation had some problems.
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