This is my wheel concept 2017, not Bessler's 1717...

[raj]

If you can agree that the net force of the weight in this drawing is NOT mg, but much less, then you will see why my Auto Wheel concept could be a runner.

Raj

[sleepy]

Raj,
The problem with this type of design is that your weight only provides positive torque for 45 degrees of the wheels revolution. Then the weight is at it's lowest point of travel and the wheel is severely bottom heavy. Then the wheel must drag that weight around for another 315 degrees before receiving that 45 degree push again. Even though your weight gives more force on the down side, it is dragging against the upside for 7 times longer.

[raj]

My dear Sleepy,
You don't seem to be following my explanations, with reference to my drawings from the start of this thread.

This drawing is a counter-clockwise rotating wheel concept. with 12 weights, one weight moving to the lowest point with the help of both gravity pull AND downward moving extending spring downward pull and one weight moving back to the centre of the wheel with the help of the retracting spring upward pull, against the gravity downward pull, EVERY 30 degrees turn counter-clockwise.

Now consider my post above to make your own conclusion. The weights have more than gravitational force acting on them. There will be ALWAYS more weights going down counter-clockwise than weights going up.

Resolve, if you can, the forces acting on each weight, and you will get continuous net counter-clockwise torque.

Work on my Auto Wheel concept is continuing non-stop.

Raj

[ME]

I found these two animations, hidden in old threads (2005), of spring-lifted weights
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=1785
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=1804

I think Sleepy agrees they'll not work.

[raj]

Thank you Marchello.

You may find similar concept drawings in my own album on this forum.

Your two simulation show weights moving/falling from their highest point WAY ABOVE the axle and returning/lifted back to a lower point WAY BELOW the axle.

THIS is NOT resetting.

My Auto Wheel concept weights move from their highest point at the centre to their lowest point at the 6 0'clock position, as the wheel rotates 120 degrees and the weights crawl back to the center ( a bessler clue) as the wheel rotate only 60 degrees further, showing that my weights are in swinging motion for a total of only (120+60) 180 degrees rotation of the wheel and all weights are at rest/neutral position for the other 180 degrees turn to complete each revolution (Half empty half full - another bessler clue)

More Weights moving slower downwards and fewer weights moving faster upwards, different forces acting on the weights, angular momentum and moment of inertia have to be taken into account when coming to a conclusion about my Auto Wheel concept.

Raj

[sleepy]

To Raj,
I have respected your work and your willingness to share for a long time. And regardless of whether your current design works or not,I will continue to respect your ideas. You are always thinking and you have come up with some very original approaches to the Bessler puzzle. Good luck with a build of this idea,and please keep us informed as to your progress.

To ME,
In both of the animations that you mention, the springs seem to have magical abilities! They can be extended at 30% of the weights force,yet they can retract the same weight at 70% of the weights force! Both of these will end up being bottom heavy.

[raj]

I am struggling on my own to see how motion of the 12 swinging weights would affect torque required to rotate the drum wheel, while waiting to see the proper computer simulation by David M. from London which should be ready in about a month.

Drawing 1 showing 12 weights in black, at the start position.
Drawing 2 showing 12 weights in red, after 7.5 degrees turn clockwise.
Drawing 3 showing 12 weights in green. after 15 degrees turn clockwise.
Drawing 4 showing 12 weights in blue, after 22.5 degrees turn clockwise, going to reset back to drawing 1, at 30 degrees turn.

Raj

[Silvertiger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqF-58U ... tu.be&hd=1

[raj]

Silvertiger, Thank you.

It's awfully NICE of you to do a computer simulation of my Auto Wheel concept.

I am sorry to say that you have not got the starting geometry of the weights positions right.

At no time all 12 weights will be simultaneously at the centre of the wheel.

At any given time of rotation, there will be always 6 weights resting in dead centre of wheel, with their levers/pivots at 30 degrees intervals from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock.

Raj

[Silvertiger]

Doesn't matter where they start...They will always end up at the bottom. Each spring's rest length is the radius of the wheel, which means they all seek the center, which makes it logical to start them in the center. Whether you start them at 1:00, 2:00, 5:00, etc..., they will still attempt to return to the closest position to center that they can until they come to rest...which is of course at the bottom due to gravity. What force in nature could possibly make those weights seek to not remain at their center of gravity, but rather at some arbitrary position to the right of the axle? What force would make them stay there? Think about it. In your drawing, you have the weights spiraling around as if gravity doesn't affect them...you have weights that are being lifted by some unknown force. Try not to be disillusioned here, Raj. Once those weights fall, they will never achieve their original height, even if that height is beneath and to the right of the axle.

[raj]

Silvertiger,
Once again. Thank you.

I can't see if you have used cords in your simulation.

There are 3 things that guides the motions of the weights:(1) levers (2) springs and (3) cords/strings.

It's the cords that keeps the weights at rest in the centre for 180 degrees turn of wheel.

Raj

[Silvertiger]

I edited my post while you were posting Raj lol.

Your welcome. :)

[raj]

@ Silvertiger.

You are absolutely right in showing all the weights in the centre of the wheel in your simulation above.

The drawings below show how far you are right.

The drawings show clockwise rotation of wheel.

In drawing 1 to 6, you will appreciate that the weights will stay at rest in the centre of the wheel.

It's only from drawings 7 to 12 there will be falling of weights.

Raj

[Silvertiger]

It starts falling in drawing one Raj, not seven. Doesn't matter how many weights you have. If ONE cannot make it, neither will the others. Gravity acts at all times...not when we want it to.

[raj]

I give up explaining.

I'll just continue, with my own thoughts, until I am convinced otherwise.

My GBP 200 paid computer simulation in 3D project by David M. in London UK, to be completed in a month, should tell me to stop or not.

Raj