Generating more meaningful debate

A Bessler, gravity, free-energy free-for-all. Registered users can upload files, conduct polls, and more...

Moderator: scott

Post Reply
User avatar
John Collins
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:33 am
Location: Warwickshire. England
Contact:

Generating more meaningful debate

Post by John Collins »

Many years ago I was a member of a small group whose desired intent was to solve this three hundred year old conundrum by brainstorming the solution. Clearly we failed but we did have some interesting discussions.

I'm currently in Spain but upon my return I would like to try to enliven debate with a few suggestions in the hope that it will stimulate ideas leading to more useful posts. There are a couple of people who are doing their best with ideas and I think we need more like them.

When you look back to the earlier forums there were far more posts and it was alive with ideas, I'd like to try to get us back to those times. I'm not saying I can do it, but I think it's worth a try.

JC
Read my blog at http://johncollinsnews.blogspot.com/

This is the link to Amy’s TikTok page - over 20 million views for one video! Look up amyepohl on google

See my blog at http://www.gravitywheel.com
User avatar
Silvertiger
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1059
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:12 pm
Location: Henderson, KY

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by Silvertiger »

Hey John, excellent notion. I just sent this email to a patent attorney since I believe we need IP protection for any discussion of what your idea entails, as it would alleviate certain concerns and fears for just such a discussion:

"The nature of the question is pre-patent, specifically regarding the use of NDA's in an online community such as a forum. If a forum exists whereby users world-wide come together to exchange inventive and creative ideas towards one or more end goals including patenting, is there an NDA that exists for that purpose or one that could be drafted for such a purpose, with the goal of protecting POTENTIAL intellectual property as it is introduced into an online discussion? Thank you."

I figured it might help. Don't know when I might get a response.
Philosophy is the beginning of science; not the conclusion.
User avatar
John Collins
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:33 am
Location: Warwickshire. England
Contact:

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by John Collins »

Thanks for the idea and for acting upon it, I await any response with interest.

JC
Read my blog at http://johncollinsnews.blogspot.com/

This is the link to Amy’s TikTok page - over 20 million views for one video! Look up amyepohl on google

See my blog at http://www.gravitywheel.com
User avatar
ME
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3512
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:37 pm
Location: Netherlands

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by ME »

I suspect the decline in ideas is inversely proportional to the increase in online awareness of consequences.
For an NDA to be enforceable you need the real names, a closed-up forum, a way to consent to such agreement and still have hope for some honesty in this interlinked opportunistic world.
Often, caused by and effects into, illusions of control.

Which reminds me: Let's hope for a working and meaningful democracy in Catalonia, no matter the outcome.
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
rlortie
Addict
Addict
Posts: 8475
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: Stanfield Or.

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by rlortie »

Silvertiger wrote:
"The nature of the question is pre-patent, specifically regarding the use of NDA's in an online community such as a forum. If a forum exists whereby users world-wide come together to exchange inventive and creative ideas towards one or more end goals including patenting, is there an NDA that exists for that purpose or one that could be drafted for such a purpose, with the goal of protecting POTENTIAL intellectual property as it is introduced into an online discussion? Thank you."
I found the best way to solve this problem, was to open a closed forum; "Gravity Solutions Group." a Private forum that all selected members must be voted in and agree to a NDA that all information remain within said group.

"Gravity Solution Group" (a hidden group) is here, listed below John's forum and above AB Hammer's. You will not see it or find it under "Groups" unless you are a member.

It allows all included members to collaborate and exchange ideas within a defined entity. Not unlike your world wide companies that can communicate via the web on their skunk works projects, retaining patent rights. Material passed in such manner is not considered for public disclosure.

Military aviation companies always competing for the fastest plane, be it a fighter, interceptor or bomber communicate using the internet in such manner.

There are currently 2,155 members on this forum, it is amazing how many have never posted or opened it since joining. Although I assume it would hurt Scott's advertising revenue, I for one would like to see a general housekeeping performed. Delete all members that are not currently active or at least log on once in a while.

Ralph
Last edited by rlortie on Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gill Simo
Aficionado
Aficionado
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:26 pm
Location: Glastonbury UK

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by Gill Simo »

A noble enough aim JC and a welcomed outcome should you achieve it for sure.
Alas I imagine your first sentence re `a small group whose desired intent was to solve this three hundred year old conundrum` sits at the root of our decay.
You clearly refer to the mystery of Bessler's Wheel & not the ancient mystery of PM & this forum was created to investigate Bessler's wheel....which it did back then.
Each armed with a fresh collection of everything from your book then we set upon dissecting what we had, every morsel, this way, that way, every conceivable bloody way....but each way apparently offered nothing even remotely helpful, 'til we ran out of trying to investigate Bessler's Wheel...resulting in a forum of die-hards and dreamers still wet behind the ears, concerning themselves with the ancient mystery...somehow seeing it fit to follow in the failed footsteps of millions before them over the virtue of following through with the one fella who apparently didn't fail.
I think it'd take a new book with lots of new material to bring back the good ole days.
Gill
"Everything you know will always equal the sum of your ignorance"
User avatar
raj
Addict
Addict
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:53 am
Location: Mauritius

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by raj »

I think my interest in Perpetual Motion Machine in general, not in Bessler's wheel in specific, disqualifies me for membership on this forum, as some members are insinuating in their last few posts.

Thank you for allowing to post my ideas on here for so long.

I won't post anything on here from NOW on, if MEMBERS so wish.

Just let me know.


Raj
Last edited by raj on Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Keep learning till the end.
rlortie
Addict
Addict
Posts: 8475
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: Stanfield Or.

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by rlortie »

raj and Gill,

Why does it have to be Bessler's wheel, he did not leave us with understandable clues, nor do I believe he intended to.

Most of his drawings put forth two-demensional designs, for years we have gave little attention to the third plane.

From a machinist point of view there are three planes X,Y and Z: The X axis is horizontal and runs from nine to three. The Z axis is vertical running from twelve to six. The Y axis is axial (depth or toward or away) and runs with the axle when viewed head on from its end.

I was once somewhat chastised by two primary members of this forum when I asked them if the Y plane may be of use in a PM wheel. The response was a very positive "No", there is nothing of value in the Y plane.

I disagree, we have looked everywhere else and the answer is alleged to be where everyone of many have looked!

Think axial and see what you can come up with!

Ralph
User avatar
raj
Addict
Addict
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:53 am
Location: Mauritius

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by raj »

Bessler has mentioned a drum wheel, which is a wheel in three dimensions in X, Y, and Z planes.

But he has not shown any drawing in three dimensions. If he did, that would have given away his secret.

We have to visualize some of his drawings in 3D.

Raj
Keep learning till the end.
User avatar
preoccupied
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1893
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:28 am
Location: Michigan

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by preoccupied »

Goodbye Raj. You are being impulsive. You are impulsive leaving your last post. You were impulsive when you want to share your ideas for free. You were impulsive when you file your patent applications prematurely believing that you have found the secrets. Do what you enjoy Raj. I think that means you come back because you enjoy being here.

These people here like in this specific thread are not protecting science when they seek intellectual property protection on this topic. I know it's scary looking like they made it look like it's not safe to share ideas here somehow. I think so. Nobody get scared! No one should protect perpetual motion machines as intellectual property anyways. Even if perpetual motion is found the real hero will be the scientist who understands it and makes that big scientific paper on it that explains it best and lets us know if it's actually safe beyond a reasonable doubt. Maybe then the law will recognize that man as the real owner and leader on the subject instead of the lucky fellow who discovers something unusual. You all are paper tigers looking for hidden treasure.

If you find it and if the government shuts you down, it's because gravity is scary because we need it like it is without changing it. Using large amounts of gravity for energy might threaten all life as we know it if somehow you destroy it. It's really art, toys for enjoyment, food for enjoyment, and not something serious that you can just discover and keep as a trademark, patent, or copyright, and say I've created something! Maybe what you want to do is consider this an energy like a fuel. It's not. It's hypothetical and theoretical science even at that wonderful moment when you have the prototype working. Good luck with that shame.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain
User avatar
raj
Addict
Addict
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:53 am
Location: Mauritius

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by raj »

Thank you, Preoccupied.

You are too wise for me.

Raj
Keep learning till the end.
User avatar
John Collins
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:33 am
Location: Warwickshire. England
Contact:

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by John Collins »

As some people may be aware, I have never sought protection for my ideas, only acknowledgement. So I have looked at patent applications in the past, many years ago now, and decided against ever applying for one if I had any reason to think I might.

Therefore despite the good sense offered by both a Silvertiger and Ralph, I am not concerned about IP. I would like to be acknowledged as the inventor or discoverer of Bessler's solution if that should come to pass, but if someone else were to subsequently seek to apply for a patent on my discovery then I should offer them my best wishes!

In which case if I were to provide significant information both by a web site, blog and my own already existing open forum here, I guess I could prove my priority without bothering to apply for a patent. Using the word "priority", I don't mean to use it in a patent application way, just as a means of receiving acknowledgement for my input.

But perhaps I'm being naive?

JC
Read my blog at http://johncollinsnews.blogspot.com/

This is the link to Amy’s TikTok page - over 20 million views for one video! Look up amyepohl on google

See my blog at http://www.gravitywheel.com
Sam Peppiatt
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1525
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:12 pm

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by Sam Peppiatt »

Hi John,

For what ever it's worth, I think I know how it was done. I'm fairly certain now that Bessler's first two wheels had two sliders and the last two had four sliders.
See Mt-13 & 135. With a weight at each end.
The sliders were reset every one half revolution at or about the horizontal position. The weight of the slider, when it is more or less vertical, stretches out the spring. Then when it, the slider, approaches horizontal, the spring resets the slider with fast motion. One spring pulls the slider one way and the other spring pulls the slider the other way.
But, for this to happen the springs have to be fastened to a plate that slides back and forth, with a cam, so that when one spring is tight the other one is lose.

John, are you with me so far? Sam
Last edited by Sam Peppiatt on Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
John Collins
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:33 am
Location: Warwickshire. England
Contact:

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by John Collins »

Yes I'm with you Sam, but as you might know I'm working on a different concept, but that is not to say you're wrong. Many of us have our pet theories and I have mine.

JC
Read my blog at http://johncollinsnews.blogspot.com/

This is the link to Amy’s TikTok page - over 20 million views for one video! Look up amyepohl on google

See my blog at http://www.gravitywheel.com
User avatar
John Collins
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:33 am
Location: Warwickshire. England
Contact:

re: Generating more meaningful debate

Post by John Collins »

Gill, you are right, new material would bring back the 'the good ole days', but that is my intention, not through a book, although that will follow, but through individual posts both here and on my blog.

JC
Read my blog at http://johncollinsnews.blogspot.com/

This is the link to Amy’s TikTok page - over 20 million views for one video! Look up amyepohl on google

See my blog at http://www.gravitywheel.com
Post Reply