Weight rising in a flash...

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raj
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Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

Just this minute, a Bessler clue came to mind, and a question arose.

Clue: weight rises in a flash.

A weight swinging on a outstretched spring connected to rim of a wheel, rising in a flash, would mean weight moving up faster than its pivot, and moving free from the wheel during that time, as the spring retracts.

If that's the case, would the weight be providing any torque, whether positive, negative or zero torque? That is torque would be mg. mg+, mg- or zero

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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

My answer to my own question is:
The torque will be definitely less than mg.
Chances are that it could also be zero torque.


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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ME »

Say you raise your weight straight up in a flash for a height H during one rotation.
note: I suggest to raise ½H each 180° to keep the weight between two radii... but you may also do it an almost infinite amount, and shift the orbit...
You'll normally invest an energy amount of (E=m·g·H), but all the better if you can do it for free.

Your Center of Mass (or "point of torque" if you want) will shift horizontally (r=H / 2pi) to the descending overbalanced side.
The amount of generated work over one rotation (2·pi) will be W =∫ r x F dΘ = (H / 2pi)·m·g (2·pi) = m·g·H

Hence the Importance of Raising Weights
:-)
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

I was alluding to how Bessler’s clue can hold true, that is a weight being lifted in a flash, in a rotating wheel, without any external force.

The only way I think that could happen ( sorry I can’t use physics term in my argument), is when a weight hanging on a spring, being pushed downwards by gravity, on the descending side of the wheel, making the spring stretched by design, all the way downwards, part of gravitational force downwards will convert into PE in the outstretched spring.

When the weight goes to the ascending side of the wheel, the spring now above the weight, released from the pull of gravity, moving back to its spring/weight equilibrium position, will use the accumulated PE as KE to pull the weight upwards in a flash against gravity.

This is just my physics layman views.

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Post by Silvertiger »

Don't forget the most important clue within that clue, Raj. The weights also came to REST before being raised in a flash, meaning that at some point these weights were just "dead weight" and did absolutely nothing for a brief moment in time before getting "snatched along." All the weights, at some point, come to "rest below."

His description always makes me think of the old yo-yo trick called "Walking the Dog." Interestingly enough, Bessler also said that "the dog creeps out of its kennel just as far as his CHAIN will stretch," and then he "creeps through a hoop." This alludes to an interesting pulley interaction on these weights.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ovyyus »

Bessler also claimed nothing inside his wheel hung from the axle and that everything turned with the wheel. There's a clue for everyone.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by agor95 »

That is disappointing; I was going to included a hanging component.

Well that could mean it is not required.
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

So anyone of you, please tell me how YOU think a weight could be lifted in a flash, inside a rotating wheel without any external force, different to my version.

Thank you.

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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ME »

raj wrote:Sorry I can’t use physics term in my argument
[...]This is just my physics layman views.
My "math riddle" in layman terms:
  • The "Point of torque" on the wheel will be found 90 degrees ahead of the direction the weights move on that wheel.
When you move weights (including the mass of mechanisms) around a wheel then, for the main directions, I get these scenarios which may be combined:
  1. When the weight motion is horizontal in the descending direction, this Point will be at the bottom, and it's a pendulum at best; So we can scratch ±49% of the attempted overbalance designs. (Height for width scenario)
  2. When the weight motion is down, because of gravity, that Point will be on the ascending side - any rotation will experience the most counter torque possible. So we can scratch another ±49% of the attempted designs.
  3. It's extremely rare one attempts to move the weight in the direction of the ascending side...
  4. The only way is up to get overbalance, but then there's this required energy input..
I think these are the main issues with most overbalanced designs.
Marchello E.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ovyyus »

raj wrote:So anyone of you, please tell me how YOU think a weight could be lifted in a flash...
Bessler wrote:We must bear in mind an important point. It is impossible to construct any new machine except by using a certain type of material.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

Nothing to say.
Last edited by raj on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ovyyus »

Not relevant? Bessler might be suggesting that a 'certain type of material' makes it possible to lifts weights in a flash.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

Nothing to say.
Last edited by raj on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ovyyus »

I would apply an intrinsic energy source in order to lift a weight up quickly. How would you do it?
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Post by Silvertiger »

Myself...I make the weight lift its own lazy self using its own energy, Raj. If it falls, well then I might as well use the fall for something, right?
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