Weight rising in a flash...

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raj
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

Nothing to say.
Last edited by raj on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ovyyus »

Springs cannot power an engine. Energy sources power engines, not the other way around. Your design will not work without an energy source. Bessler might say that you're putting the cart before the horse, FWIW.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

Nothing to say.
Last edited by raj on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Silvertiger »

Because he's right. It takes the exact same amount of energy to compress or stretch a spring as it does to release it back to its rest length. Therefore, any net work done is zero. This is a conservative force, whereby energy is conserved, and thus the net output is always zero. This is why it takes external energy input to do anything with it at all. When a mouse sets off a trap, don't you have to lift the spring pin with your fingers to remove the mouse and reset the trap? It's rhetorical, because the external input energy for that reset comes from your fingers. If it worked any other way than that, I'm afraid you wouldn't get much sleep, as the trap would repeatedly snap and reset, snap and reset, snap and reset, all day and all night...but it doesn't.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ovyyus »

raj wrote:You know much more!

Who am I to argue?
Knowing more, or less, this is a Discussion Board.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

Nothing to say.
Last edited by raj on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ME »

Nope, you may challenge by yelling "irrelevant" but this is a discussion board so we try a conversation.
raj wrote:So anyone of you, please tell me how YOU think a weight could be lifted in a flash, inside a rotating wheel without any external force, different to my version.
That's indeed the main question to answer doing in Perpetual Motion Research.
Answers not relevant to topic subject in question.
Yes they are. Just your own example isn't.

You say your weights move both up and down... Relevancy: Option 2 + Option 4.
So things should at least wobble a bit. Perhaps making your example a wobbly flywheel at best.

Your spring could act like a harmonic oscillator where its frequency matches the rotational frequency of the wheel,
But each cycle your spring rest on top of the axle.

The good: It may restart its oscillation. The bad: The build up kinetic energy is lost. The ugly: These effects fight each other.
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

I am tempted to reply.

But WISDOM...

Raj
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ovyyus »

raj wrote:A challenging board ?
Testing your ideas can be challenging. Worse if no one cares.
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Re: re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ME »

raj wrote:I am tempted to reply.

But WISDOM...
No, no, no Raj, that's again a challenge and not a discussion.

I was hoping on a reply sounding something like: "You may say <insert what I said>, but that <choose: is, or isn't> exactly how it operates because <insert a proof by math or actual proof of operation>".

But, missed opportunity.

I'm just teasing you Raj. :-)
(how's your simulation going)
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by raj »

Nothing to say.
Last edited by raj on Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ovyyus »

raj wrote:I am on this forum just to show what I am doing. I am not here looking for help from any forum members. Its a platform to display my ideas to the world.
If you don't need anything from anyone, why do you ask questions?
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re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by ME »

When introducing this design, Raj wrote:The reason I keep posting all new PM ideas that comes to mind is simply because I do not have anybody, PM enthusiast close by, whom I can share my thoughts.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 945#152945
Good talk
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Re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by Silvertiger »

Let's go back to the first post...
raj wrote:Just this minute, a Bessler clue came to mind, and a question arose.

Clue: weight rises in a flash.

A weight swinging on a outstretched spring connected to rim of a wheel, rising in a flash, would mean weight moving up faster than its pivot, and moving free from the wheel during that time, as the spring retracts.

If that's the case, would the weight be providing any torque, whether positive, negative or zero torque? That is torque would be mg. mg+, mg- or zero

Raj
1. Springs are conservative.

2. Gravity is conservative; so torque doesn't matter.

3. Solution: don't rely on gravity as your only source of input.

4. Are we done yet?
Philosophy is the beginning of science; not the conclusion.
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Re: re: Weight rising in a flash...

Post by MrTim »

raj wrote:You keep repeating what Bessler has said.

Tell me what and how YOU could lift a weight in a flash without any external force?
If you think you know how, of course!

Raj
Oh, there is at least one way to do it (and without springs.) I've worked out a concept & tested it by pinning parts together, but finding a mechanism that can shift the mass without producing back-torque is the main problem. I'll get back around to it eventually... ;-)
"....the mechanism is so simple that even a wheel may be too small to contain it...."
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