Are we sure of 8 weights

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Robinhood46
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Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by Robinhood46 »

I have never been able to convince myself that it is a fact that there are 8 weights. I do hope i've missed something because it would be much easier.
9 weights being each held back one step every revolution or seven weights advancing one step would both give 8 nocking noises per revolution. As would 4 weights turning twice as fast. If we accept that the weights work in pairs, 7 and 9 is out, unless of course there are 7/9 big weights for 7/9 small weights and it's only one or other that is heard.
I do so hope I missed something and the answer is very simple.
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Post by Silvertiger »

Bessler never specified. He said they work in pairs and that it works better the more weight pairs you add, and that was it. It was spectators of the operation of the wheel who assumed it was eight.
Last edited by Silvertiger on Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by ovaron »

Besslers own description of the mechanism is extremely cryptic. His description serves two things in my opinion. He can later prove that he was the first to discover the principle, and secondly, he confuses the reader. Bessler must have felt a satisfaction when he wrote down the principle in such a way because he knew that his "enemies" would read it, and he imagined them scratching their heads and understanding nothing.

We can not conclude that the weights that are supposed to work in pairs are the same size. Bessler initially suggests that with his description, but makes no real statement. My guess is - and I think others too - that heavy and light weights work together, with the heavy weight always closer to the center than the light weight and the impact noise caused only by the lighter weight. The alleged 8 weights are a very vague guess. Fischer described "about 8" impact sounds, interpreted by some as 8 weights. But that's only a guess.
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by sleepy »

Eight "banging" sounds could be something as simple as hanging ballast weights knocking against the side toward which the wheel is turning.Plus 50 rpms is nearly one revolution per second.How accurately can a person count to 8 over and over again in just over one second.Not to mention Bessler could have used the sounds as a decoy.Too many possible explanations to base a design on this info.
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Post by Silvertiger »

In order for them to clearly identify a series of eight weights contacting something and making noise, there would have to be a string of eight successive sounds followed by a pause of silence before hearing the eight sounds again...surely something like that would have been mentioned in testimony?
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by Robinhood46 »

after the initial push from a stationery state one could distinguish relatively clearly 8 knocks for one revolution I would have thought , especially if the process is repeated numerus times.
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Post by Silvertiger »

At 55 rpm and without timers? May as well be counting for 440 rpm. Quite the magical feat to be able to count that fast, at least for me. That's like bouncing a ball off four walls and asking how many bouncing balls I hear blindfolded, and I tell them six. It could have been the sound of eight weights or eighteen weights or only one weight. The spectators were speculating lol.
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by Sam Peppiatt »

Robin,

I am, 4 sliders 8 weights, it's a no brainier,

Sam
Robinhood46
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by Robinhood46 »

My understanding was that it took a few revolutions to reach its constant speed. I would have thought that the acceleration would be progressive and that the first turn would allow one to count to 8 relatively easily.
The possibility of someone being able to establish at the time or not the 8 knocks is of little importance.
It appears that my initial question is answered with a no, we are not sure of 8 weights.
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by Furcurequs »

Where I grew up, we were taught to count out seconds by adding the filler word "Mississippi" or the filler phrase "one thousand" between the numbers. So, we would say "one Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi (, etc...)" or "one one-thousand, two one-thousand, three one-thousand (, etc...)."

That means we can normally and easily speak 4 or 5 syllables per second, which would be 240 or 300 syllables per minute.

If there were 8 hitting sounds per revolution for Bessler's 26 rpm wheel, that would only be 208 hits per minute or 3.5 beats per second and so should be rather easy to count, I would think.

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Robinhood46
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by Robinhood46 »

Thankyou,
I also believe that it was possible.
unfortunately we have no records that allow more precision than somewhere between, the real truth and sounds like a good guess to me mate.
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by rlortie »

metronome at 208 Per minute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QMskvxNwhM
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by Robinhood46 »

lol,
with my super high speed internet connection I only get 5 clicks before a long pause.
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Post by Furcurequs »

Are you sure you got the count right? ;P

Because of my high speed internet (and my noisy DSL line), I download youtube videos with a program called "youtube-dl" before I watch them.

It is interesting to think of that as approximately the sound of Bessler's wheel.
Last edited by Furcurequs on Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Are we sure of 8 weights

Post by ovaron »

Keep in mind that "about 8" also can mean that it was not an integer ratio. For example, at three turns 23 bangs (7.66666 bangs per revolution) :-))
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