Hello
This time i want to submit to your consideration this arrangement in wich there is not collision with the shaft.
Dimensions and weights are not important as long as they are symmetrical.
The big wheel is provided with an initial -5 rpm because the assembly is always balanced. It can't autostart.
Then, looking at the velocity graph you can see how it increases.
Max. air resistance and friction has been taken into account.
The rotation is loading the pendulums with gravity while thw balance is always conserved. Then the tension between the 2 inertias is loaded in the big wheel as a torque.
I will appreciate your remarks
Increasing energy from their own swing
Moderator: scott
Increasing energy from their own swing
The real problem is not believing it to be possible
re: Increasing energy from their own swing
Oops
I hope now the picture is attached
Weights act in pairs, one against another.
I hope now the picture is attached
Weights act in pairs, one against another.
The real problem is not believing it to be possible
re: Increasing energy from their own swing
Nice to hear from a new member. I couldn't really understand what was supposed to be happening.Maybe if you could post an animation of the motion it would be easier to understand.
Trying to turn the spinning in my brain into something useful before moving on to the next life.
re: Increasing energy from their own swing
The real problem is not believing it to be possible
re: Increasing energy from their own swing
First of all thanks for your time sleepy.
Actually I'm not a new member.
I've been around for years mostly as a reader.
Having lost my password I changed my nick-name.
The picture that I have uploaded does not seem to be very self explanatory.
Neither the animation.
So I will try to explain a litle bit the concept.
I'm not claiming a runner or something alike.
I'm just convinced that the only way to achieve it is collecting energy from pendulums
and transfering it as a torque to the wheel.
In the picture we can wee a big wheel free to rotate and another smaller wheel
also free to rotate independently of the big wheel around the same axis.
Then we can see two more wheels (upper and lower ) attached excentricaly to the big wheel
acting as a pendulums. These pendulums are connected betwen them trough two beams attached to the central small wheel.
Note that the pendulums are under gravity-pressure
The pendulums can't swing independently.
I think there is an interesting feature about this assmbly: whichever the position you place it, the full assembly is balanced.
Then let's give a push to the big wheel and the assembly starts the rotation.
The centrifugal force and the inertia of the central small wheel are slowly changing the angle betwen pendulums and at some point the combinend swing of the two pendulums transfer the energy as torque to the big wheel.
Finally all the system acts as a pendulum because I have not found yet how to keep it one way.
Nevertheless anyone can simulate it and realize the incoming energy collected from gravity and transfered to the wheel.
Actually I'm not a new member.
I've been around for years mostly as a reader.
Having lost my password I changed my nick-name.
The picture that I have uploaded does not seem to be very self explanatory.
Neither the animation.
So I will try to explain a litle bit the concept.
I'm not claiming a runner or something alike.
I'm just convinced that the only way to achieve it is collecting energy from pendulums
and transfering it as a torque to the wheel.
In the picture we can wee a big wheel free to rotate and another smaller wheel
also free to rotate independently of the big wheel around the same axis.
Then we can see two more wheels (upper and lower ) attached excentricaly to the big wheel
acting as a pendulums. These pendulums are connected betwen them trough two beams attached to the central small wheel.
Note that the pendulums are under gravity-pressure
The pendulums can't swing independently.
I think there is an interesting feature about this assmbly: whichever the position you place it, the full assembly is balanced.
Then let's give a push to the big wheel and the assembly starts the rotation.
The centrifugal force and the inertia of the central small wheel are slowly changing the angle betwen pendulums and at some point the combinend swing of the two pendulums transfer the energy as torque to the big wheel.
Finally all the system acts as a pendulum because I have not found yet how to keep it one way.
Nevertheless anyone can simulate it and realize the incoming energy collected from gravity and transfered to the wheel.
The real problem is not believing it to be possible
re: Increasing energy from their own swing
Hi JG .. welcome back then :)
I noticed on the pic that the velocity of the big wheel built over time - that's good - but thought, was enough time allowed to see a reliable trend develop ?
Then in the vid I see that the wheel stops and reverses etc, explaining the positive and negative velocity plots.
My first thought is how much Input Energy did you give it to start ? And was it at its position of lowest GPE when it was started ?
To start you can add a Force element and set the time active for a second or so. Or you can attach a known mass near the rim and let it rotate the wheel before disconnecting etc. Then you know the GPE given as RKE to the assembly.
Or you can simply create an Output called System KE - Equation is simply ... Kinetic()
This shows you the KE trend over time. Ideally it would build to be greater than the Input Energy.
Just some thoughts.
I noticed on the pic that the velocity of the big wheel built over time - that's good - but thought, was enough time allowed to see a reliable trend develop ?
Then in the vid I see that the wheel stops and reverses etc, explaining the positive and negative velocity plots.
My first thought is how much Input Energy did you give it to start ? And was it at its position of lowest GPE when it was started ?
To start you can add a Force element and set the time active for a second or so. Or you can attach a known mass near the rim and let it rotate the wheel before disconnecting etc. Then you know the GPE given as RKE to the assembly.
Or you can simply create an Output called System KE - Equation is simply ... Kinetic()
This shows you the KE trend over time. Ideally it would build to be greater than the Input Energy.
Just some thoughts.
re: Increasing energy from their own swing
Hi Fletcher,
Thanks for your remarks.
Following your advise, in order to start the rotation and with the assembly at rest I have attached 0.1 Kg mass to the rim during 0.5 s.
The mass has traveled 31 mm in vertical before his free fall so the energy introduced into the system should be 0.03 J
Here's the new animation video including also the KE of the big wheel along the time. I know that despite the peaks of KE, the area under the curve is small
https://vimeo.com/244626744
Thanks for your remarks.
Following your advise, in order to start the rotation and with the assembly at rest I have attached 0.1 Kg mass to the rim during 0.5 s.
The mass has traveled 31 mm in vertical before his free fall so the energy introduced into the system should be 0.03 J
Here's the new animation video including also the KE of the big wheel along the time. I know that despite the peaks of KE, the area under the curve is small
https://vimeo.com/244626744
The real problem is not believing it to be possible
re: Increasing energy from their own swing
Attached there's the total energy ( the addition of the total energy of the 4 wheels) over time for the first 150 s.
The dotline is the trend-line.
The dotline is the trend-line.
The real problem is not believing it to be possible
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re: Increasing energy from their own swing
Hi JGarriga,
I had a similar idea some years ago. But the system is not swinging, as expected.
More pictures you can find under:
http://www.kuenstler-energie.de/index.php?id=9
To allow a swinging, the weighs must have a way to swing. This can be managed by different constructions:
1. not using gears, using chains, then the System can swing in resonance
or
2. the axle itself is lose and allow the swinging.
I had a similar idea some years ago. But the system is not swinging, as expected.
More pictures you can find under:
http://www.kuenstler-energie.de/index.php?id=9
To allow a swinging, the weighs must have a way to swing. This can be managed by different constructions:
1. not using gears, using chains, then the System can swing in resonance
or
2. the axle itself is lose and allow the swinging.
Best regards
Georg
Georg
re: Increasing energy from their own swing
Hi Georg
You have a nice web page !
You have a nice web page !
The real problem is not believing it to be possible