M. Turbine III

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re: M. Turbine III

Post by rlortie »

agor95,

I got it under control, you may resume pedaling!

Thank you, I can now view all your sims! Interesting to follow, hope it works out for you.

Sorry but my years of hands on experience tells my its going to be a hard sale for me to believe it will work. Do not like to be pessimistic, but its member duty to tell it as you see it.

Ralph
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by agor95 »

Ralph

What would we do if you were not hammering out the dents :-)

Planned downtime tomorrow.
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by agor95 »

I am thinking of turning the simulator around and looking from a different perspective.

That means create a route the masses have to follow as the device rotates.
Then reverse engineer the spring strength/s to achieve that result.

The spring strength/s are stepped at this time and it is creating a micro-bounce effect.
I have put into the sim a spring dampening to act like friction.

When the device is stopped only gravity is in play.
With a small rotation then the route will be close to the static configuration.

With increased rotation the CF will deform the base config' and the spring strength formula needs to increase the strength to address the evolution of the dynamic changes.

I am hoping the CF deformation can be used to implement the spring strength changes.
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by agor95 »

The is the device with some guide discs.

They help me see how much the bars deform.
That is the disc merged in with the bars.

The back discs are the spring strength step changes.

Using a base K = spring strength.

The disc have increasing multiplying factors.
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by agor95 »

Torque is force combine with duration equates to power.

Work done is displacement of inertial mass.

inertial mass in this example is 'Moments of Inertial'.

Work done is the displacement of the bar as it rotates.

The power appears to be asymmetrical.
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by Georg Künstler »

Hi Agor95,

very good work, you are on the right track.
Will it work in every position or only if the construction is vertical.

Where do you plan to extract the additional gained energy ?

My thoughts going to this direction to make the movment more eirig/egging. Therefore you need a place how you can disturb the normal moving path.

Eirig is a german word for a curve you have on an egg.
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by agor95 »

When you look at the sim results a person can easily write it off and move on to another design.

The dynamic time the rod exists in each region effects the accumulated power.

When the spring pulls the rod up from bottom left's extreme position.
This causes an increase pressure down into the stand [not shown].

This would be a momentum earth to device transfer.

As the bar rotates the stand should receive less pressure.

With analysis this could be a zero sum result.

The other source could be structural stress.

As the pulling up causes more stress in the stand than the rest of the
dynamics.

You may explore the egg shape route.
There have seen some conditions resulting in that happening.

I wanted to find some conversion conditions based on actual physical
spring characteristics.

conversion conditions allows small difference to converge to the similar dynamic result.

Note. As Bessler's Wheels were vertical devices. I am content too follow his example.
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by agor95 »

I have seen iOS browsers not working correctly. so the site
has been rewritten. Hopefully this works for all browsers.

https://steampunks.ddns.net/bessler/wheel/index.html
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by agor95 »

As I bounce around the various paths and variables

I keep on seeing patterns that remind me of the image.

I am trying to get a 1 bounce rotation.

Then for that to increase rotation.
That creates a larger 1 bounce and on on each rotation.
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by ChrisHarper »

The problem with this Turbine111 is not the ingenuity of design or nice artistry, rather there is no where for any force to excape.

Fletcher touched upon this in another thread. For self-supporting rotation to occur, there has to be a way for the device to dump force to create an imbalance.

Does not overbalance or underbalance induce the same imbalance ?

Is it not more energy efficient for the system to keep heavy weights low and lighter weights high.

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re: M. Turbine III

Post by Georg Künstler »

Chris,
you are right, he Needs a place where he can extract the energy. I suggest a rotating Cage, which is rotating in the same direction as the prime mover, but a Little bit slower.

So to say, he Needs a second System to interact.
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Georg
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by ChrisHarper »

Georg

Now your thinking. Turn your thought pattern inside out and upside down
I like the old 'buzzsaw'* design for it was the right idea but misapplied imo.

Chris

* apologies, I forget who designed that.
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by rlortie »

Who designed the "Buzzsaw" aka; "The Heathen"
Story of Albert keno
And his
Wonderful wheel
As told by his Grandson
Ron Keno

Hello Ralph.

My son Mitchell forwarded your e-mail to me, concerning my Grandfathers'
“Perpetual Motion� machine...It seems this is the very same creation that
He had.
I remember seeing this machine on the ground up against the inside back
Wall of a small "garage" type frame building on his old farm property...My
Aunt, Marie Couchman's model "A" Ford Coupe was stored almost up against it
for many years. The building was a small one story, one stall building on my
Grandfathers farm near Richfield Springs, N.Y. I was about 14 years old at
the time...that would have been about 1944...It was probably still there a
few years later when the property was sold to a neighbor named Fred Seaman
now deceased...What ever happened to it ..I never knew..
The general story that came down through the family was that he felt he
could successfully make a perpetual motion machine in the classic
sense. He seemed to have been obsessed with this goal...Perhaps from an
early age...I do not know. I was led to understand that he was secretive
about it. To the point where he had iron castings made in different
foundries To safe guard his ideas...Toward the end of his life he lived to
be about 97, he still worked with various size tin grocery cans with the
ends cut out, in different configurations. At that time, in my later
teens, it was clear and logical to me, that he was visualizing his thoughts
on the possibilities of making a machine that would produce energy with no
physical input of energy, and at that time it involved cylinders running
within and without other cylinders in close company
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by ChrisHarper »

Thanks Ralph,

All credit to Albert.

Chris.
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re: M. Turbine III

Post by agor95 »

ingenuity of design or nice artistry
Well I will look at some nice artistry to show what you require.

Regards
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