My consideration

[unstable]

To test my theory, I tried to build, temporarily and quickly, the drawing I had posted yesterday. It can not run. It is always necessary a force that is not present in the gravitational field alone. If the Bessler story is true (I begin to doubt this too), he must have used some other source of energy and not only gravity. It is not possible that in 300 years nobody has succeeded in finding a design that at least highlights the possibility of continuous rotation (motion) from gravity alone. Something is wrong. Now I'm dejected. I was convinced it was the right way. We invest time, energy and money in something unrealizable. For me maybe it's time to change goals, change hobby. It is really frustrating to dedicate mind and body to something that never works the way you want it.

[Johndoe2]

Right but think how long (history) wise before many inventions were made. Take for example the compound bow was not made until the 80's?

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Unstable,
you have already the right name. The construction itself is so simple that is is always overlooked, because it is in the mind of a technician unstable.

It is only necessary to create an oscillator powered from gravity.

Every stable machine is consuming energy.

But an Unstable machine can deliver as much energy from gravity as you want.

I showed it in the top heavy pendulum.

When you have a top heavy pendulum, you must extract the energy so that it cannot reach the down position, in a repeat function.
Overweight and overweighted is the heart of the Bessler wheels.

[unstable]

Hi Johndoe2, yes, it's true but I interpret inventions on different levels ... the story of Bessler is a bit 'a case apart for me. Maybe I am wrong :)

Hi Georg Künstler, I'm happy to interact with you again. I had chosen my nick just in honor of the need to create a continuous mechanical instability in what concerns the possibility of drawing energy from gravity. I see it in a way similar to yours.
What you say makes sense but the problem is just create a stable mechanical oscillation from gravity "energy". Gravity is not really an energy but a field of force.
I have a passion for electronics and in that discipline to get an oscillation it is necessary an energy input which in this case is the difference of potential (whose unit of measurement is the Voltage [Volt] ) supplied from the outside to the circuit concerned and modifiable (towards zero) at will by resistive dividers. With gravity alone we do not have a potential difference because gravity is the same at any point on the wheel (or pendulum) and we can not attenuate it at will. I believe that gravity alone is not enough to generate a mechanical oscillation, all the parts spontaneously tend to stabilize and then stop... perhaps a combination of different forms (gravity and centrifugal / centripetal force). I'm not sure what I say, I just intuitively imagine it.
Certainly the fact that Bessler was not really a high morality person (corretc / upright) does not play in favor of the whole story and the possible reality of his invention. Like others here, I also have several doubts about the whole story... but ok, this is another matter.

[unstable]

Mode "fox and grapes" = ON

I think that even if the story of Bessler was true and if someone will discover the working principle it would be of little interest today. That system would have no use even where there is no electricity. Nowadays, only the technology of photovoltaic panels already surpasses any type of "Bessler device" due to its weight size and efficiency. Even if there were an unknown physical principle, once discovered, I think it does not make sense patent a mechanism that uses this principle. With internet this physical principle would be available to all in a short time and any company (IF) interested would develop the mechanical parts suitable for using this physical principle... and certainly in a better way compared to our project.
Moral of the story: it's just a waste of time. We are no longer in the historical period suitable for this type of poor energy source.

Mode "fox and grapes" = OFF

[Art]

"I think that even if the story of Bessler was true and if someone will discover the working principle it would be of little interest today. That system would have no use even where there is no electricity....."

-----


Wow , -- Those taste like sour grapes ! :)

[raj]

It will save this planet and the human race to continue progress when this planet's materials, for making/building energy productions machines/engines from wind generators, solar panels and nuclear plants are all exhausted.

[ME]

The fruit of Perpetual motions is apparently not as low hanging as expected. Stupid tree..

• THE TRAVELLERS AND THE PLANE TREE
  Around noon on a summer's day, some travellers who were exhausted by the heat caught sight of a plane tree.
  They went and lay down in the shade of the tree in order to rest.
  Looking up at the tree, they remarked to one another that the plane tree produced no fruit and was therefore useless to mankind.
  The plane tree interrupted them and said, 'What ungrateful people you are! You denounce my uselessness and lack of fruit at the very moment in which you are enjoying my kindness!'

[unstable]

Hi, I did not know that you say "sour grapes" in Italian it is used to say "la volpe e l'uva" (the fox and the grapes) and I translated this way. :-)

Seriously, maybe this discovery it is just for curiosity now ... we are no longer in the historical period (age) suitable to have great benefits from that kind of "discovery", the ratio of energy obtained and size is absurdly disadvantageous ... but I can also be wrong.

[ChrisHarper]

Hi,

Several of the posts above made me grin broadly, for I sense a key shift in understanding of the problems at hand, and how to maybe overcome them.

Truly heart-warming.....

Chris Harper

[Johndoe2]

Besslers invention is only the tip of the iceberg. Science has Hoodwinked the citizens of the world. Religion in the 1700's and before forced a split between real experimental and genius inventors and Observational science. Thus the need for secret societies such as the rosicrutions and Mason's. So much of Science is built precept upon precept any errors in the foundation can cause the whole system to fail or be lost. This is what we have today. With the invention of Besslers wheel science will be forced to reexamine it's foundation and who knows what truths may be found.
On a practical level the fact that anyone can have a cheap and steady supply of energy with only the most basic of materials is a game changer especially to 3rd world countries. Economically without having to pollute the air, dam the rivers, waste huge tracts of land on wind or solar farms and transport said energy via dangerous wires all across the globe. when everyone literally can have their own infinite power source no more larger than a refrigerator. This my friend is the true definition of game changer.

As for how to do it? It's so simple 2 weights on a pivot. Move one closer to the center and the other one further away. Rinse then repeat!

[ovyyus]

Stupid makes a poor teacher.

[unstable]

With all due respect to Scott (the webmaster), I think he has not accurately chosen users worthy of being in a position to moderate the forum. A moderator should be an example as correctness and calmness in attitudes, it is clear that those who offend in a more or less hidden or direct way certainly do not deserve to be a moderator.

This forum hosts characters whose thoughts range from the most coveted conspiracy theories to bigotry, to religious dogmas transposed into mechanics. I understand that many here are very old and do not know how to spend time keeping busy ... is perhaps the only explanation that I can give a similar (and useless) interest in something obviously unattainable.

There is no conspiracy in the current theories of physics, being convinced of this is a clear sign of mental insanity. You are unawares playing the game of some trickster here who have a certain economic return to divulge false news. When you understand this you will find that you have lost time in the most useless way possible.

For my part end of transmissions. I'm sorry for the few really smart that there are on this forum ... for example ME (Marchello), Fletcher and someone else, I hope you also realize the absurdity of this whole affair.

Good life to everyone.

Claudio

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Johndoe2,
you are right, exactly that happed with a top heavy pendulum and alternate the length of the lever arms.

[ChrisHarper]

Claudio,

The problem with this forum, which only gets worse with time, is that some members treat this place as their 2nd home.
It's defined who they are. They and their avatar have merged.

It has maybe become the only place left in their life maybe worth keeping as they approach the early Winter of their life.

They rarely offer anything new as they feel that they are 'time-served', so simply revert to heckling, like some sodden, chair-bound grinch !

Chris