Spaceships & Gravity

[AlanR]

Hi all,
I'm sure theres an easy answer to this, I just cant put my finger on it.

Take the case when a spaceship does an unpowered "slingshot" around the moon.

Since direction is altered (ie its now heading back towards earth) energy must have been used to perform this work - ie, without the moon there the engines would have to have been used.

But gravity is a conservative force - where did the energy come from?

Is the speed the same?

Or did it just "use" Gravity to do work at no cost?

This sounds like kindergarten stuff.. .please excuse my ignorance of the basics.

[Jonathan]

I made a similar observation on the old board, and the concensus was that the energy came from the kinetic energy of the large body. But it is interesting to note that that is free energy, because we didn't pay for it.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi AlanR,

when we like to use this free energy, then we only can do that with a time difference. That means faster up, slower down.

I like to give you an example with two rockets. The first rocket should have a weight of 5 kg, and is able to lift this weight, if the fuel is used suddenly. We get potential energy.

The second rocket will have the same weight, and is not able to lift, because we are burning the fuel slowly. The result will be, no lifting, no potential energy.

Gravity force*time has 'eaten up' all energy in the second case.

Hope this example is usefull for you.

Therefore I said by the Besslerwheel construction, upwards with a hit.
The hit is nearly zero time, in up, clever Bessler.

[Jonathan]

Georg, I think I finally get what you mean about time and gravity, but I will post it in your thread.

[jim_mich]

But gravity is a conservative force - where did the energy come from?

I must respectfully disagree with you. I believe gravity is NOT a conservative force but a continuous force. If you had a steady wind blowing in your face you would think it acts like a spring. It would take a force to walk into the wind. And you would be blown backward with the same force. You might very well believe the wind is a conservative force just like a spring! But we all know it is a form of energy. And it can be used for power. Gravity is the same. Most of us are not aware of how to build a gravity wheel. When one is built it will be plain that gravity is a source of energy just like the wind.

[SolitonExpress]

Jim's innate observances serve him well. The high minded love to deride such observances as naive, stupid. They would bring up some stupefyingly self deceptive example like putting a propellor in front of gravity and making trite remarks about how the whole affair is ridiculous. They, of course, do not mention what kind of propellor and make assumption that even the naive will readily visualize what they mean. It is one thing to generate a rotary motion via the wind on an axis perpendicular to the primary motive force. Quite another to do so on a plane parallel with it. The eggbeater style of upright wind turbine comes to mind. It is easy to see that an arrangement can be made that makes use of the wind in a way that is just as valid an argument FOR a gravitational system as against it. Why, even the standard "propellor in the stream of gravity" analogy becomes suddenly quite relevant in light of somewhat recent findings. Some of these self styled mental hypocrites are always very quick to judge any outside their ranks as unworthy of basking in their pseudo enlightenment. Whenever they make a simple analogy, it is to be charitible to the lay person.....if you try it......they will misunderstand at every opportunity, showing how far removed from simple logic they are. Even now, there are machines which exploit various quantum concepts directly and are more efficient by orders of magnitude than any strictly mechanical apparatus. What we do now, in our utter infancy, by seeking to reduce these concepts to mechanical practice....is merely to pinprick the veil of this, a technological dark age, to see if what enters that hole is enticingly brilliant....or conversely, something very different.

[Jonathan.]

SolitonExpress;
You sound like you are full of hatred, why would would anyone want to listen to you? Are you a reviler?

[jim_mich]

Jonathan,

It is very hard to quickly understand what Soliton is saying. He/she uses large words and complex sentences. I don't see hatred, I see a very learned person who has been hurt in the past for openly expressing his/her ideas. Soliton needs a little healing time and he/she will be ok.

Just my opinion, what do I know?

I learned a new word today 'soliton'. I heard the concept before but did not know the word for the concept. Had to look it up.

[PAX]

In reply to Jonathan: I am sure you can identify personally (on some level) with what was said. What you may interpret as hatred, I would as objectively as possible, define as indignation. I can understand your question as to whether or not I am a reviler. However, as I spoke entirely of a subjective group to which many and varied personal opinions will apply, any "verbal abuse" found in my statements above would be purely hypothetical for purposes of discussion. I certainly don't see myself as a reviler and try to conduct myself in a manner devoid of verbal abusiveness.


I might add that I am as human as the next guy, though. You warthog faced baboon.




can I get an lol here?




(couldn't resist, nothing personal, obviously)

[Pax Pacis]

Ouch!, pardon me if I don't laugh out loud at that one. Do I really look that bad? Well, at least I am willing to post what I look like and at least now you are being somewhat civil so I won't complain. Actually when I saw your photo, I was not surprised. Even though we are different on the outside we probably have a lot in common. I am a man without prejudices. Probably we could be friends, we just got off on the wrong foot. I was meaning to ask you; if I may have permission to post your photo in a members only forum; something I would never do in a malicious way and not without the person's permission. This way, people could put a face to the name and it would probably help to foster understanding and mutual respect. I totally understand if you are not ready for that yet. By the way, what the heck are chem trails anyway?
sincere regards..
yes, you know who.

[Jonathan.]

Hi Jim,
Yes, I agree with you, "a little healing time" can do wonders.
I looked up solitons...very interesting stuff.

[IJHCNA]

email it to me. I'll look it over. If it was taken within the last 72hrs I'll give it some Sirius consideration. Otherwise, why insult everyone. I would prefer an arial photograph should one have managed it. Your comment regarding my recent civility begs explanation. As for getting off on the wrong foot.....make that both feet, mine. And wuddyamean WE? Look at who you're talking to here. Perhaps it does speak to my lack of personal assurance that I could not manage to get a single (lol) for all my digital tedium. I know of no one who wants to be branded a coward. Especially wrongfully. A man's personal revelations cannot make him so even at the expense of his attempted anonymity. At any rate, forgive my impertinence in assuming I have been a worthy proponent.

[.]

can I get an lol here?

Actually, it's much easier to ignore you. Say everybody, that's a wonderful idea! Why don't we do just that? (I'm starting..... NOW....)

[Jonathan]

You anonymous guys are making this thread confusing! I want to stress the difference between 'Jonathan.' and 'Jonathan', we are different people.

[Mikhail]

Gravity is the same. Most of us are not aware of how to build a gravity wheel. When one is built it will be plain that gravity is a source of energy just like the wind.

They is true !!!

I knows how to make a wheel, what a while using the anergie gravity will turn !!!