WM2D

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ME
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re: WM2D

Post by ME »

Two coordinate systems:
Cartesian = (fancy way of saying) the usual X/Y coordinates
Polar = Distance/Angle coordinate - or Magnitude/Direction

From Cartesian to Polar: Magnitude=Sqrt(X*X+Y*Y), Angle=ArcTan(Y/X)
From Polar to Cartesian: X=Magnitude*Cos(Angle), Y=Magnitude*Sin(Angle).

When you look at your screenshot, the property of that force is set to "Polar".
Fx is set to 42.426 (Lb?) as the force-magnitude (visualized as the size of the arrow)
Fy is set to 225 (°?) as the direction (visualized as the orientation of the arrow)

Setting the coordinates to "cartesian", and the horizontal-force Fx becomes (-30 Lb) or 30 Lb going left, and the vertical-force Fy becomes (-30 Lb) or 30 Lb going down.

(Don't know why it shows Fx/Fy without units for that, as [F]/Theta would be expected)
Add:
-- WM2D forgets to set the appropriate labels, they will be ok when swapping the option to cartesian and then back to polar --
Marchello E.
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re: WM2D

Post by graham »

Thankyou Marchello,
I have to say that I'm impressed with your math skills.
May the force be with you.

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Post by ME »

No prob. & Thanks.
Did those 'skills' solve your issue?
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re: WM2D

Post by graham »

Well partly yes, however my primary issue of discovering just what was behind the oilcloth still remains stubbornly out of reach

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re: WM2D

Post by graham »

Could one of you good people please explain to me what the "moment of inertia"is on the properties table of a circle .
How does this number expressed in " lb-in^2 "affect the results of a sim in WM2D ?

Maybe this is one for you Marchello

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Post by ME »

The moment of inertia for a thick ring is:
I = 0.5 * m * ( R1^2 + R2^2)
Where m=mass, R1=inner radius, R2=outer radius

For a thin ring R1=R2 --> I=m*(R^2)
For a disk R1=0 --> I=0.5*m*(R^2)

So a thin ring has more inertia than a disk.
What does that mean....

It affects questions like the one FCdriver posted:
please tell me the Terminal velocity that a weight falling 65 inches, on a 84 inch radius ? Would it be better to have a heavier wheel, or a lighter wheel? Is it waste of energy, having the weight move a heavy wheel, or a benefit?
My answer: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 544#138544
A weight falling 65 inch should get a velocity of about 5.68 m/s [2*g*h=v^2].
(add: less when accounting for wheel inertia... I'll figure it out)
In the meantime I figured out the relationship with inertia as a factor (F) of that maximum velocity.
For an ultra-light wheel (or a pendulum) that factor F is 1.
For a heavy wheel it goes towards zero.

As a ring has twice the inertia of a solid disk, the F of a ring is lower compared to a disk.
The actual factor-F co-depends on the dropped weight, so it's no easy tell what that actual factor-F is.
But what I actually can tell is that a weight on a weightless rod (a pendulum) the velocity (for that problem) is Vmax=5.68 m/s
When that weight is planted onto a disk its end-velocity (for that height drop) is smaller (because actually that pendulum has now a certain weight) is lower.
And when that weight is planted onto a flywheel (thus moment of inertia of a ring) the end velocity is even lower.

In theory an infinitely heavy wheel (without being concerned about its own gravitational field) should have a factor-F approaching zero, meaning that planted weight has little effect.

I hope it makes some sense.

Marchello E.

Sidenote 1: As a European I'm not used to Lbs - somehow I translate it as 'Lobsters')
Sidenote 2: What kind of vibrant window could possibly be found behind such dirty cloth?
Marchello E.
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re: WM2D

Post by graham »

OK I get it
A higher value of "moment of inertia "for something like a flywheel would require more time to reach max velocity than one with a lower value.
A logical fact and not something to fret or lose sleep over .
Thankyou again Marchello

I was born and raised in England and when they adopted the metric system I knew that I could never go back.
BTW how do you say "perpetual motion "in Holland?

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Post by ME »

Basically one could make the wheel react fast to motion shifts, or absorb annoying ones....
When a weight goes from top to bottom, that final velocity depends on Inertia.

Dutch: "Perpetuüm mobiel"

partitioned: Per-pe-tu-um mo-biel

sounds like:
(note the short/long indicated vowels are for my own convenience (dutch), and does not relate to the english sounding vowel )

Per - short "e", like the "her" in there, or better: Pear
pe - long "e", like pay but forget the focus on the"y"
tu - long "u", like the "e" as in new, without the "w"
um - short "u", like the "um" as in drum

Mo - long "o", like doh
biel - long "i", like keel

It combines to something like: Pear-pay-tew-uhm Moh-beel

oh, and a slight intonation on "pay" (you know Dutch huh!), and a smaller on "beel"... the rest is muffled along.

A bit weird to think about it this way, but good luck practising
Marchello E.
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Re: re: WM2D

Post by Fcdriver »

Magnum wrote:Can anyone tell be how to setup a gear system to run 2:1. The larger wheel set at 1 and a smaller wheel set at twice the speed.

Ken T.
the circumference doubles, the ratio doubles, with gears its the number of teeth, 25 teeth to 50 teeth. The 25 tooth gear turn twice
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Post by Fcdriver »

It appears that in testing the weight should shift, so as the the wheel slows the weights should retract towards center, and as the wheel speeds up, they should move to the outer rim. Setting the tension on a spring device, for the best recovery range. This makes the wheel give its best performance
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re: WM2D

Post by graham »

Thanks Marchello for the brief Dutch language lesson.Very similar to the Latin.

How are those dykes holding up??

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Post by ME »

The "how" is rather difficult, I don't think they are simulatable with WM2D.

The attachment, which I found somewhere on the net, shows some interesting indications of the "how".
Like a blue line (left) showing some trickling water-level, and on the right a Fellenius slope stability analysis.

Looking at these I think one can simply conclude: They do just fine.
The only wet feet we have here is from some heavy autumn rains...

Marchello E.
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Dykes.jpg
Marchello E.
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re: WM2D

Post by graham »

With global warming predicted to raise sea levels considerably in upcoming years dykes may become more popular around the globe.
It has been said that London England will be underwater in the future!!

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Post by ME »

Or pontoon housing...
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re: WM2D

Post by eeman »

Hello Gentlemen

I am a newcomer to this forum and haven't even begun to read all of the many threads and topics. I have been contemplating the Bessler wheel for about 20 years and dabbled in a few construction attempts. I am not a physics guru or trained mechanical engineer, but have built many mechanical and electronic devices over the past 40 years as chief engineer for a small electronics company.

Not being trained in the nuances of writing scripts or doing complex computations on moving bodies, I am using a very simple approach with WM2D to vet wheel designs that would probably be useful especially to beginning users of WM2D. If this method is of interest, I can outline it here or start a new topic as I don't want to derail this thread.

What I am doing in the way of simple vetting of wheel designs using what I think is a unique approach, may have already been explored here, and I have not yet found it in a search.

Your input on which direction to go with this approach would be appreciated, but so far as a newcomer, I'm a bit disappointed at the lack of a single reply.

Kind regards

eeman
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