Multiple images of MT

[Jeff]

How many images are there in MT that are duplicated? For example: the first drawings on my copy show 1 and 2 and in the upper right hand corner is writing in a squared off area. The next page seems to again show 1 and 2, but the squared off area is gone. Also on the first page with the squared off area you can see where the book was folded open to make the copy, the fold being on the left side. If you look closely you can see a portion of the page that was to the left of the fold and that looks like a part of the MT 134 drawing, but when looking at 134, it doesn't seem to match the vertical positioning on the page, and if it is 134, why is it located before 1 and 2? Are there multiple copies of MT, and if so, do any have text on drawings 54 through 118?

Jeff

[John Collins]

Hi Jeff,

There are two versions of MT 1 and 2 - for what reason I don't know, but I think that Bessler may have started his MT once and then started again after having drawn just two drawings, hence only 1 and 2 are repeated.

As for the proximity of 134 to 1 & 2 I can't be sure why, but I do know that back in 1996 or thereabouts, the MT was a collection of loose sheets loosely bound together, with odd ones floating freely. If they were bound together by someone other than Bessler, this may explain the odd proximity of these two drawings. In addition it may also explain why some are upside down?

AS far as I'm aware there is oly one copy of the MT and that has been confirmed to me by the German museum libraries.

There is no text adjacent to the drawings after 54 apart from a couple of brief comments on 56 and the final "toys" drawing. This again leads me to suppose that Bessler never finished his MT. I think that he abandonded work on it after his arrest and never returned to it.

John C.

[Stewart]

Hi Jeff

I think it's odd that there are two pages for MT1 & 2, hence my question to John if he knew why the other day. Maybe John is right and he started again, or maybe he just wanted to change something in the written text. It seems to me that the MT1 & 2 page with the box with writting in the top corner is the odd one. Take a look at the other MT1 & 2 page, and all the other pages up to MT54. The text on all these starts with No.1, No.2, etc - the "odd" page doesn't have this. There is also a dividing line between each idea when two ideas are on a page (up to MT25). This is sometimes a 2 line seperator and sometimes 3 lines. This is absent from the "odd" page. I'm not sure whether this means that the "odd" page was the original and he started again using the format with dividing lines and "No."s, or whether the "odd" page is the new page with revisions and a change of format! MT was obviously a work in progress, so I suppose it's not surprising that there are duplicate pages. It's interesting though that there are differences in the MT1 images (the dotted line) - why add or remove this between revisions if MT1 wasn't an important clue? It would be useful to have a translation of the text accompanying the images - does anyone have a translation? It would be particularly interesting to know what it says in the box on the "odd" page.
There is also a duplicate of MT3 & 4 - the first page has only the images and the second also has the text. The second page has poorly printed images, but the first page has very clear images - my guess is Bessler planned to redo that page as the images weren't clear.
I too noticed that the photocopy of MT1 & 2 has a bit of MT134 at the side - this is definately the same MT134 page we see later but it's upsidedown.

All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

I'm dying to know what this says - can anyone provide a translation please? Many thanks.

Stewart

[Guest]

Hi Stewart,
Have no fear, I happen to be an expert at this.
It says:

"It often absolutely astounds me how problems in demonstrations and experiments can be solved with a well applied hammer."

[Guest]

Just kidding about the hammer. I have no idea what this means but couldn't resist trying to say something funny.

[ovyyus]

Stewart,

"First impressions by lamplight; clear problems in the demonstrations and experiments, what was seen among various friends."

[Stewart]

Hi Ovyyus

Thanks for the translation - I'd got most of the words right, but was struggling with some that weren't very clear. It's a strange thing to write, don't you think? "First impressions by lamplight" - why write that?
It almost sounds like a sort of diary entry. "clear problems in the demonstrations and experiments, what was seen among various friends" - this suggests that he worked on the first experiments with others. My guess is that the "odd" page of MT with this text at the top is one of the original pages of notes on his experiments, and he re-drafted them later ready for eventual publication. There were probably more of these originals with other notes scribbled on, I wonder what happened to them.

All the best
Stewart

P.S. Guest - I actually like your translation better - it made me laugh, thanks :)

[Stewart]

Hi Ovyyus

Do you have a translation of all the text on both the MT1&2 pages and if so can you post them for us please? I'd like to see how the text explanation differs between the two, and whether the dotted line is mentioned. Many thanks.

Stewart

[ovyyus]

Hi Stewart,

Yes, MT does read like a personal diary and/or layout for his future publication.

Unfortunately I can provide no further translations at this point as they will all be included in my own upcoming publication of Bessler's MT next year.

Go here http://www.orffyre.com/mt.html to reserve your copy - what a tease, eh :)

[Stewart]

Hi Ovyyus

Ok, thats fair enough! I guess I'll just have to wait - but hurry up and get on with it will you! :)

All the best
Stewart

[WaltzCee]

Hi Stewart,

Yes, MT does read like a personal diary and/or layout for his future publication.

Unfortunately I can provide no further translations at this point as they will all be included in my own upcoming publication of Bessler's MT next year.

Go here http://www.orffyre.com/mt.html to reserve your copy - what a tease, eh :)

Wanting to charge for something readily available for free? Sounds like a scam.

[ovyyus]

It's like talking with a narcissistic child. The translations weren't freely available 20 years ago and I was limited in what I could share because of an agreement with John Collins. I offered free online translations of the MT text shortly after this period, as well as my free online version of the MT images that were published earlier. You are not welcome to use any of my work in your upcoming book. Although, I do think the chance of someone so incompetent as yourself writing anything substantive on any subject are probably slim to none.

BTW, the translation I offered Stewart in 2003 was incorrect. Instead of reading, "First impressions by lamplight...", it should have read, "First impressions by lampblack..." Anyone familiar with the term 'lampblack' will understand the type of ink used by Bessler to print his first impressions of the MT woodblocks.

[WaltzCee]

.
.

You are not welcome to use any of my work in your upcoming book.

Your 'werk' is totally irrelevent to PM.

It's like talking with a narcissistic child.

ouch! ouch! Ouches!! That hurt, mister.

[WaltzCee]

.
This is quite the admission

and I was limited in what I could share because of an agreement with John Collins.

So the playing field isn't quite level. Thanks for sharing that.