Marquess of Worcester

[agor95]

Hello All

Here is an 8 compartment Marquis Wheel.
The pegs are arranged for a counter clockwise rotation.
Green pegs around the outer rim and red on the inner corner of each compartment.

As any weights hanging from these pegs are fully supported the actual compartments can be removed.

Regards

[WaltzCee]

I believe we all agree

The hell you say.

I'm new to this group think thing. Are we suppose to get a memo?

[Sam Peppiatt]

argo95,

As you turn the wheel, won't there be 5 weights below the center line and 3 above? And since the weights are captivated by the ropes, they are rotating with the wheel, ( not translating). It will be out of balance; or am I missing some thing----------------------------------Sam

[agor95]

Or am I missing something

I am also getting that feeling I am missing something.
I hope this is due to focusing on programming.

One point is counting the weights on either side of a vertical mid-line or a horizontal mid-line.

When you pull down on a wheel the horizontal distance from the axle is what matters. Also the angle you pull and with what force; however that is vertically down in this example. The weight pull with the same force.
However that changes with rotation rate.

All the Best

[agor95]

Marquis Wheel 8 compartments with weights.

Regards

[Fletcher]

We do and we should. Because some people think that odd numbers are better than even numbers for example.

So lets examine more realestate.

Your analysis of turning moments should then show a clearer trend regarding potential torque bias possibilities.

A good exercise to revisit from time to time, imo.

[WaltzCee]

Cheers Justsomeone. It is odd the different conclusions we come to based on our experience, even though a lot of us have experimented with or examined many of the same mechanisms.

I think 3 lobes is a good simplification of this mechanism except for the hanging weights. The faster you spin it, the more they will swing out to the side. If you wanted them to hang straight down, you would need more mechanisms and a slower rotational speed...

Why do you think 3 lobes, Tarsier? I do agree.

I'm not sure how the principle of the Marquess of Worcester wheel morphed into this Frankenstein of a wheel.

Igor of What'sthishere wheel. This should be good.

[Tarsier79]

Why 3 weights? Because I wouldn't waste time adding 30 or 50. If I thought this had merit and was going to build it, I would test it with 2. 2 opposed weights gives you a feel for the rotational forces on opposite sides of the wheel at any particular point. Like most wheels you will have 2 positive quadrants and 2 negative quadrants.

[agor95]

Why 3 weights? Because I wouldn't waste time adding 30 or 50. If I thought this had merit and was going to build it, I would test it with 2. 2 opposed weights gives you a feel for the rotational forces on opposite sides of the wheel at any particular point. Like most wheels you will have 2 positive quadrants and 2 negative quadrants.

It is only correct to base our position on assuming this wheel has no merit.
Like yourself 40 compartments is to much for a simple analytical review.

I did think about 2 compartments. However that would create an issue when they were vertical.

Therefore the 3 compartments version was created and assisted in software development.

Naturally if Bessler found out about the Marquis Wheel in his travels then he could have used it within his construction. Therefore 8 bang means 8 compartment wheel.

Also you get 4 pairs of compartments instead of 2 compartments; A bulk buy.

The focus is on the 2 bottom left compartments.

How much force are they exerting on the outer wall?

Could they be used to pull in partly the weights in the 2 bottom right compartments?

Regards

[agor95]

Hello All

I am learning how to use LibreOffice Draw.

This is a basic line drawing of one compartment.

The task is to have a PDF file that can be used to print on an A4 sheet.

This gives a better base too study for others than an image of a model.

Summary

The image is a circle sectioned off into 8 sectors.
A square compartment with the guide line at 100 degrees to the top right corner of the square.

Also two overlapping circles to show the pendulum path from both anchor points.

Regards

[Tarsier79]

I did think about 2 compartments. However that would create an issue when they were vertical.

That is the point. No matter how many pairs you have, or how many odd weights you have, each single weight will pass through the vertical position during its rotation. Each single weight (or mechanism) has to give more to the wheel than it takes through exactly one revolution. Multiplying weights is a waste of energy and time in a real build if a single balanced pair (plus a flywheel)will not power the wheel.

[agor95]

That is the point. No matter how many pairs you have, or how many odd weights you have, each single weight will pass through the vertical position during its rotation.

I also see your point that if one pair does not do a 360 then 4 independent pairs will produce the same result.

So make them not independent pairs and work on getting a result in a 45 degree movement.

When you have 1 line of symmetry the rotation is 180 degrees.
With 8 lines of symmetry the rotation is 45 degrees.

I am looking at the behaviour of the weights in a dynamic setting at this time.

All the Best

[Tarsier79]

So how do you make them not independent?

[agor95]

So how do you make them not independent?

To answer that we need to model the movement of a mass within the Marquis Wheel at different rotation speeds.

The good part of this study is the virtual modelling can be used without seeing a blurred image or getting our fingers caught.

The other good point is the mass has defined stages were it's position is known.

Note. I would like to think this analysis has been done and a member is ready to share a presentation of their results.

All the Best

[agor95]

Hello All

Well this looks like a step backwards. It is a balanced wheel with the paths a mass might follow when connected to the anchor points.

The next task is to get accurate results from spinning the wheel from high rotation speeds to low.

That will require some computation power. So the visualization will have to wait.

I will be placing a marble in the top box [inspired by Leafy].

Lets see what happens.

P.S. Think washing machine and loose marbles.

Regards