how to test PM

[WaltzCee]

theory.

And scott-free.

Discussion branched from here
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... e6#p185942

[WaltzCee]

Force analysis can be done with mass or money.

No money needed for paper trading. Convert mass to money and test your theory.

Money alone isn't evil. Worshiping it is a misplaced trust.

[Fletcher]

Let me explain by reason of a question.

If any think they've discovered the principle of perpetual motion, why don't you express that principle mathematically? Then every time mass shows up in your equations replace that with your local currency. For me that's USD. Time remains time.

Now imagine a beast powered by that principle yet instead of clothed in matter, clothe it in paper. Currency.

Now put your beast into the financial octagon, NYSE. THE big board. Roll around with the big boys and see if you can make a profit before they force you out of your positions. These boys have nothing but time. They own that game.

My multifaceted question becomes

If your principle is valid in mechanics, is it applicable in any power struggle to determine the winner?

does your principle transcend any means or method?

or does your principle give up the ghost?

Do you have enough confidence in your principle to bet the farm? 1/2 the farm??


It is mathematically provable that if you give to someone expecting something in return, your expectation will cost the one you helped in any even exchange.

If you design some condor to descend into NYSE, don't borrow a 2nd of clothing from your broker. Even if they don't charge interest (they do) between the piece of your position they own and time, they will strip you naked.


I have a lot to say about this. Please join me.

This is your game Walt .. most of us simply don't want to be stitched up, if we were successful, and then tried to make some coin on the invention for a return on their investment in time and expertise.

Assuming that a runner was valid in mechanics. It obviously has a practical utility value, and an inherent academic value.

However, to go the international patent route does nothing but give you the right to defend it in the courts (in the countries observing the treaty), whilst it is copied and sold. Most don't have the personal resources themselves to go down this rabbit hole. They need to partner up with an entity with the financial muscle and the chops to rigorously defend it, or do license deals, should that be necessary.

Most have heard of the "two prisoner dilemma" (e.g. how cops get convictions) - it also applies to markets, and even personal dealings between two people. Just about all aspects of life imo. IOW's when faced with a proposition, and a counter proposition, most will look for a win/win compromise to move forward i.e. cooperation and compromise. A few times in my life I have come up against an immature individual who wants to win at all costs and the bragging rights are more important to them than either of us moving ahead with our individual plans once a deal is struck. It generally ends badly for them and I never deal with them again.

When you enter the NYSE via your broker, as you say he has little skin in the game and plenty of time. You could get hung out to dry quick smart. Even if he has a piece of the action what is his motivation for win/win for you, and him ?

What's your plan, if you were that broker ?

And how would you protect and nurture the inventor (who is not savvy in this environment) and both your investments, so there is a pay day not far in the future, that is worth more than a few cups of coffee to him and his family ?

If I have taken your thread and topic in the right context ?

[WaltzCee]

. .. .. .

This is your game Walt .. most of us simply don't want to be stitched up, if we were successful, and then tried to make some coin on the invention for a return on their investment in time and expertise.

Assuming that a runner was valid in mechanics. It obviously has a practical utility value, and an inherent academic value.

However, to go the international patent route does nothing but give you the right to defend it in the courts (in the countries observing the treaty), whilst it is copied and sold. Most don't have the personal resources themselves to go down this rabbit hole. They need to partner up with an entity with the financial muscle and the chops to rigorously defend it, or do license deals, should that be necessary.

Most have heard of the "two prisoner dilemma" (e.g. how cops get convictions) - it also applies to markets, and even personal dealings between two people. Just about all aspects of life imo. IOW's when faced with a proposition, and a counter proposition, most will look for a win/win compromise to move forward i.e. cooperation and compromise. A few times in my life I have come up against an immature individual who wants to win at all costs and the bragging rights are more important to them than either of us moving ahead with our individual plans once a deal is struck. It generally ends badly for them and I never deal with them again.

When you enter the NYSE via your broker, as you say he has little skin in the game and plenty of time. You could get hung out to dry quick smart. Even if he has a piece of the action what is his motivation for win/win for you, and him ?

What's your plan, if you were that broker ?

And how would you protect and nurture the inventor (who is not savvy in this environment) and both your investments, so there is a pay day not far in the future, that is worth more than a few cups of coffee to him and his family ?

If I have taken your thread and topic in the right context ?

I'm still reading your response Fletcher. It's full of angles. I need to sort it then shine a light thru it to see what I can see.

I might could use some mud in my eye too. :)

Your summary question seems to have too many words.

[WaltzCee]

It generally ends badly for them and I never deal with them again.

Does anyone ever deal with them again Fletcher?
:)

[WaltzCee]

When you enter the NYSE via your broker, as you say he has little skin in the game and plenty of time. You could get hung out to dry quick smart. Even if he has a piece of the action what is his motivation for win/win for you, and him ?

A broker is certainly going to cover his butt. His skin is in the system and most are heavily invested.

All I need from a broker is for them to adhere to the boundaries of their system. They're always going to get the bigger piece of the stick.

It's a symbiotic relationship.

[Fletcher]

It generally ends badly for them and I never deal with them again.

Does anyone ever deal with them again Fletcher?
:)

I'm thinking of the last time this happened with me in any big way. Some people are just sociopaths. Interested in status and self-interest out of any situation. They could think they are cleverer than everybody else. Some think that the world is made up of only predators and prey. Some like myself like to think that our moral compasses are intact enough to not be either, as a matter of course or nature.

And that is where the two prisoner dilemma comes in - cooperation and compromise to move forward with a win-win.

However this is only guaranteed to work if both parties expect a relationship to be enduring in some way. Sometimes, the other party is short term and sees no future relationship possibilities, and is prepared to cut-your-lunch (the one-off) to their benefit (the bragging rights). In the belief that your paths will not significantly cross again. Fortunately I suspected this attitude was a possibility with this fellow and had contingency counter-measures prepared should things go pear-shaped, which ultimately I was prepared to use, and did.

Yes, others probably deal with him. But I suspect with a jaundiced eye, and probably cash up front. His short term strategy was ultimately transparent and predictable, and he accrued his just rewards.

[WaltzCee]

What's your plan, if you were that broker ?

I'd look at the trading of those working their butts of chasing money and see if I might persuade them to learn the difference between gambling and investing.

[Fletcher]

Correct me if I'm wrong ..

Before something would hit your book (NYSE) it would have to be a publicly listed company ?

That means a lot of water under the bridge before traders could get hold of the stock etc.

For instance, the inventor partnering up with some entity, and forming a private company (with shareholders and directors etc).

Patent protection and/or licensing.

Taking that private company public.

Then issuing an IPO.

Release to the traders book and stock exchanges, or private investors.

That's what I meant by protecting, educating, and nurturing an unfamiliar (and possibly naive) inventor. Not so much the pumping of a stock that could be seen in the markets as either an investment or as the usual bankable gamble worth an inside punt.

Any other suggestions or incentives ?

[WaltzCee]

Any other suggestions or incentives ?

Looping back thru your ideas

Then issuing an IPO

You might talk private investors to buy (cheap) a defunct Corp. Much cheaper and as you know you negotiate before you sign.

If your plan is to save the world, that's the Pope's job. I'd suggest you ask for an audience.

Patent protection and/or licensing.

One can't patent nature or her principles. You might license it yet there is a huge problem with that. The rightful owner is going to want a percentage.

My plan is to test this principle on the big board.
If it works there it will work anywhere.

If all you have for a theory is a pendulum, the big boys
on the big board will rip it out by the root.

[Fletcher]

I think the discussion of a hypothetical inventor with a hypothetical runner demonstrates some complexities in getting to market, and making a appreciable and deserved return for the inventor.

Above all that the inventor, whilst possibly being good at inventing the runner, is probably not an experienced businessman in the world of commerce and its dark side (statistically). He may not be young anymore, his appetite for financial risk may have diminished, he simply may no longer have the energy to see out the next phases ?

Solution ..

1. A benefactor steps in for the next phases, and guarantees the inventor an agreed upon upfront lump sum payment (his retirement plan), and a share of the royalties and licensing etc into the future. There would need to be a punitive non-performance clause in the contract so that the invention was not shelved, once the rights have moved on from the inventor. I'd suggest there are plenty of entities that could and would fit the bill for potential partner/benefactor roles.

2. The inventor probably should have an "Agent". That is a person with commercial nouse and knowledge, and experience, of the game. Able to provide a structure to protect, educate, and nurture the inventor and his interests going forward. And thru both those levels runs the theme of 'trust' and good-faith, and watching each others back. That's how things get done and move forward. The two-prisoner dilemma in the world of commerce.

Imo an opportunity exists for our Agent with integrity to insert into the equation, and to earn an honest quid, so to speak. Without necessarily having to front-up with truck-loads of his own equity to get in the game and a seat at the table.

Of course, our hypothetical inventor may be stubborn, anti-establishment, not a team player, skilled enough to go it alone, energetic. All of these things and more, or none.

One size does not fit all !

The point is most people will need help to take the next steps and not be stitched up, and probably recognise that as limitation and a barrier to entry.

Or, as some have said, they are altruistic and would simply publish the solution to our runner and usher in a new age energy paradigm.

One size does not fit all !

[WaltzCee]

Or, as some have said, they are altruistic and would simply publish the solution to our runner and usher in a new age energy paradigm.

I plan on cedeing all my capital into seed and broadcasting it along with the idea into the hearts and minds of the next generation.

I enjoy watching raptors circling out my window. My view is close to level with the ridge of peaks to the north of me.

Best wishes to all.

[Fletcher]

One can't patent nature or her principles. You might license it yet there is a huge problem with that. The rightful owner is going to want a percentage.

My plan is to test this principle on the big board. If it works there it will work anywhere.

If all you have for a theory is a pendulum, the big boys on the big board will rip it out by the root.

I beg to differ .. you can't patent nature or her principles, agreed. You can patent a mechanical 'arrangement/combination' (of known individual mechanics) that is unique (and fit for purpose) and by way of demonstration leads to a physical proof of the much vaunted true free-energy device.

Indeed, a pendulum theory ain't going to cut it. A theory with or without a simulation, whether pendulum based or not, has never cut the mustard and probably never will in this historical mine-field of pseudo crank-science and charlatans. A POP is required to get traction and lift the metabolic rate of your average trader higher than when his mother peeps in his room.

So easy once found .. the point was to find it !