The Riddle

[getterdone]

.....and you still don't understand


I haven't posted on this site for a few years , but this riddle always stuck with me
I think Bessler hid his Prime Mover in plain site I m gonna attempt to explain

[getterdone]

If you look at a traditional wind mill, you ll notice that the fins are wide often there will 4 to 6 fins to capture as much wind as possible. After about 10 years of testing in wind tunnels They came up with the current design most commonly seen today. In my opinion this is NOT a windmill at all, I think its a Wind-Assisted Gravity Mill

[getterdone]

If you build Besslers Design shown above on a wheel it will tip over(top heavy) If you move the bottom lever at the 180 degree mark to 181 degrees
then the one at the 61 degree mark will swing over to the 170 degree mark , then back to rest at 120 degree mark

I believe that this is Mr Besslers prime mover, and combined with other designs that can give the wheel a nudge at the right moment you would have PM

I hope you guys can understand what I'm trying to explain

With Regards

[agor95]

Hello getterdone

I agree with you the answer is in plain sight. We just need to think differently.

First the wind turbines I believe are designed with three blades to reduce vibration and turbulence.

When you have an array of turbines you want to reduce the turbulence one washes onto the next.

That is done by reducing the number of blades per turbine.

Large turbines generate vibration problems with two blades. So they go for the next best thing being 3.

Another way to look at the three blade design is not from the air deflection at 90 degrees.

But looking at using the air flow to shorten and lengthening the blades slightly.

Then the turbines would capture from two causes and not just one.

P.S. Note the blades are concave when taking power from the air flow.

Regards

[getterdone]

Thanks for your thoughtful insight

On its own without any wind a triangle on a wheel as shown in Besslers drawing will want to topple over He shows it in the loaded position ready to fall .With any other number of blades you don't have that effect

In your opinion how much of the energy produced by these ''modern windmills'' do you think is from gravity and how much is due to wind

[agor95]

Hi getterdone

I take it you are looking at the black sectors in a way they can rotate. Thus closing the white gaps?

A normal turbine energy generation is known so my opinion is not required.

As to calculating the power output from a design.
That requires a physical specification to define the device first.

A 2d image lacks the required dimensions, densities, angle of movement etc.

P.S. if you are thinking on this post. remember to lock the sections using the direction of gravity as a control timer.

All the Best

[Tarsier79]

Hi G.

Wind turbines do not use gravity at all. They are balanced.

The AP wheel is also very close to balanced. Just because you see two at the top, doesn't mean the two are top heavy.

[Soon]

If you look at a traditional wind mill, you ll notice that the fins are wide often there will 4 to 6 fins to capture as much wind as possible. After about 10 years of testing in wind tunnels They came up with the current design most commonly seen today. In my opinion this is NOT a windmill at all, I think its a Wind-Assisted Gravity Mill

This is where trigonometry explains why a wind turbine is balanced. If one blade is pointed straight up and the other 2 are below the axis of rotation, all
of the blades will be 120º apart. The 2 blades below the axle would be a sin 60º or a cos 30º. If you have a blade pointing to the right on one side and then
on the other side have one blade pointing down and the other blade pointing up, 2a sin60º = a sin 90º or a cos 0º.
Sine and cosine are opposite functions. And when a wind turbine rotates, the blades on one side will have the same torque as the other side so the 2 sides cancel each other out.

[agor95]

Wind turbines do not use gravity at all. They are balanced.

I believe we can agree that current wind turbines are balanced.
There would be catastrophic failure otherwise.

Letting our imagination some room to be creative.

Then imagine the AP black sections are fins angled to create clockwise rotation.

Would this balanced mode of operation cause the AP too rotate?

P.S. Heads up this is a Brain Storming Exercise [We are gathering ideas in this phase]. You will have a chance to shut down ideas later

Regards

[agor95]

If you build Besslers Design shown above on a wheel it will tip over(top heavy) If you move the bottom lever at the 180 degree mark to 181 degrees
then the one at the 61 degree mark will swing over to the 170 degree mark , then back to rest at 120 degree mark.

OK I did not understand the above. However working on the white sectors being the fins.

The bottom white fin moves 1 degree. Presuming that is forcing the axle around to create electricity.
Then the top right fin that is now at 61 degrees is released and swing down and around then up.

Remember this was powering the turbine until that point.

This reaches equilibrium; Weight against wind force.

Do you suggest feathering the fin to reduce the wind force at this point or not?

This original top right fin comes back to 120 degrees.
That is bottom right?

So you have reversed the fin angle of attach to force is up to 120 degrees?

Did this fin hit the fin at 181 degrees or did it move out of the way?

The 181 degrees fin; Is it powering the turbine during this time?

Is the top left powering the turbine during this time?

All the Best

[getterdone]

Hi Agor95

I've always had difficulty communicating my ideas on this site , so thank you for your patients and yes the point of rest with three blades on a wheel would be the top lever at 0 degrees right lever at 120 degrees and the left lever at 240 degrees

Bessler shows it ready to topple over

Getting back to Bessler we know that when he would put his wheels in motion he would move it to a certain position for it to get going

Putting 3 blades or levers on a wheel is the most momentum you ll get adding more levers you ll get less momentum

Thats the reason that I think that this last drawing in his book of MTs is the most important clue

With Regards

[agor95]

I've always had difficulty communicating my ideas on this site.

You are not the only one.

A text based system made up of posts with subject threads.

Communication gets garbled because of the medium [text] and lost because of the Bulletin Board format.
Well there is the attachments for they helped when the album was in operation.

Am I complaining nope; it's the best we got.

Regards

[agor95]

OK getterdone

The best thing is imagine Bessler is not here :)

So you are putting forward the top [0 degrees] black fin falls over; assisted by the wind.

That means the device start to keel.

The good new the movement is small so the lost torque as it's moving is not large.

What happens next?

Regards

[getterdone]

Wind turbines do not use gravity at all. They are balanced.

The AP wheel is also very close to balanced. Just because you see two at the top, doesn't mean the two are top heavy.



Hi Taser yes the top is heavy and will topple in the position that Bessler shows it



I worked with triangles on a wheel in the past , I was going through an ancient simbolism faze lol

[getterdone]

This is from the early days lol