State your oppinion on energy this year.

[agor95]

Hi johannesbender

I am with you on the 'go mmmmm'
You are also correct a poll is a poll.

A question is asked by a person who looks at the results and explains the reasoning for the poll.

We of cause also looks at the results out of curiosity.

Regards

[JUBAT]

JUBAT,
Impacts might work but, what are you going to hit it with? A sledge hammer? Or if there is a way, I don't know how to do it----Sam

I've struggled to find out how impacts work and have shied away from springs. Eyewitness accounts heard 8 impacts per rotation.

The problem I've discovered is that the clues are darn near meaningless until you stumble upon the answer and then it all makes sense. I've spent hours reading Circle's clues and meditating on them. I still meandered off the beaten path many, many times with my own erroneous thoughts. I now understand why the wheel is so weak...or at least I think I know why.

I'm going to have a conference with my brother and see about prototyping the idea. Lots of work to be done, but he's the only one I trust with my closer than ever before solves.

Still probably a dead duck, but it might just quack one last time if I stomp on it.

[johannesbender]

Impacts is something I personally have not given much thought on ( because of losses and conservation ) ,but is there a popular alternative theory for impacts ?

[Fletcher]

There have been hundreds of "impact wheels" of various sorts throughout history - the museum of unworkable devices has a few of the most famous - most wheel designs have some contact forces (noise) just from weights changing positions i.e. being accelerated and then decelerated eventually against a stop for instance ..

Importantly, we know from the witness statements about the Merseburg wheel that impact noises were heard - about 8 per revolution - that sounds to me more like an unavoidable byproduct than a specialist motive force .. also B. tells us in MT that no wheel can be moved with hard blows paraphrased ..

JC's MT ..

No. 52 The present invention or speculation is to be found at the place of an eminent man. I was not a little surprised at the imagination involved in it. A is a balance wheel, and B is its axle. Clappers, or mallets, on B strike the wheel C, which should thereby move. At D are wheels which, by means of a cord, should move the upper axle B and set a perpendicular going at E. I will only say the following: no wheel is moved through strong blows, for paddles would sooner dash it into 1000 pieces, and it would be utterly destroyed with bullets, as is sufficiently known.

[johannesbender]

This is the most fitting description for what I personally think about the question I asked (I would not know if the translation is 100% I am not a translator).
(credit to John from his books with the translations) .

NO, these weights are themselves the PM device, the ‘essential constituent parts’ which must of necessity continue to exercise their motive force (derived from the PM principle) indefinitely – so long as they keep away from the centre of gravity. To this end they are enclosed in a structure or framework, and co-ordinated in such a way that not only are they prevented from attaining their desired equilibrium or ‘point of rest’, but they must for ever seek it, thereby developing an impressive velocity which is proportional to their mass and to the dimensions of their housing. This velocity is sufficient for the moving and raising of loads applied to the axis of rotation.

Imo this text is saying there is an increase in KE , and it is that KE which gives the needed extra energy to drive the device and do external work , that is also my vote for this poll.

[agor95]

Hi johannesbender

Imo this text is saying there is an increase in KE , and it is that KE which gives the needed extra energy to drive the device and do external work , that is also my vote for this poll.

I agreed we need an increase of movement within the device. That in turn can increase the mass's apparent weight.

Regards

[JUBAT]

No. 52 The present invention or speculation is to be found at the place of an eminent man. I was not a little surprised at the imagination involved in it. A is a balance wheel, and B is its axle. Clappers, or mallets, on B strike the wheel C, which should thereby move. At D are wheels which, by means of a cord, should move the upper axle B and set a perpendicular going at E. I will only say the following: no wheel is moved through strong blows, for paddles would sooner dash it into 1000 pieces, and it would be utterly destroyed with bullets, as is sufficiently known.
================================
Correct! And so am I! The wheel is not moved by strong blows, but strong blows can prepare a wheel for action later on. You need to harvest the energy from an impact to use it later at the correct time in rotation. I've worked so hard at this over the years and can't believe it took me this long. I had dabbled close to the solution in the past, but without one critical bit of knowledge, I was sunk. I literally stumbled across the solution New Years' Eve. Must have been that home made wine I was drinking.

I will test first and if my theory is correct, I will then share.

If you want clues, circle's posts are what lead me to my idea of a solve.

[MrTim]

Impacts do work in the wheel. Its critical for banking the energy.

You must impact at precisely the right point but the impacts do not directly drive the wheel.

Fine, don't listen to me LOL... ;-)

[Sam Peppiatt]

JUBAT, You should go with what you think will work, not by what I think-----------------Sam

[Fletcher]

Of course you are right Sam .. we advance our personal and collective knowledge small step by small step, theory by theory, and experiment by experiment ..

Theory > experiment build and test > analysis & conclusions > new theory >>>

Discussion forums promote discussion > these involve opinions > some qualified and some not > make up your own mind and follow your own instincts > have an opinion >>>

[JUBAT]

JUBAT, You should go with what you think will work, not by what I think-----------------Sam

I'm watching your roller build Sam. I see potential in it. Always remember, failed builds may end up being great additions once the prime mover is discovered.

[johannesbender]

There have been hundreds of "impact wheels" of various sorts throughout history - the museum of unworkable devices has a few of the most famous - most wheel designs have some contact forces (noise) just from weights changing positions i.e. being accelerated and then decelerated eventually against a stop for instance ..

Importantly, we know from the witness statements about the Merseburg wheel that impact noises were heard - about 8 per revolution - that sounds to me more like an unavoidable byproduct than a specialist motive force .. also B. tells us in MT that no wheel can be moved with hard blows paraphrased ..

JC's MT ..

No. 52 The present invention or speculation is to be found at the place of an eminent man. I was not a little surprised at the imagination involved in it. A is a balance wheel, and B is its axle. Clappers, or mallets, on B strike the wheel C, which should thereby move. At D are wheels which, by means of a cord, should move the upper axle B and set a perpendicular going at E. I will only say the following: no wheel is moved through strong blows, for paddles would sooner dash it into 1000 pieces, and it would be utterly destroyed with bullets, as is sufficiently known.

The fact that he denies collisions being a worthy contender , makes him more credible to me unlike someone who would rather keep options open for people who might suspect fraud or while there was stil a dispute about vis viva , especially since Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz believed his device could have been genuine and also thought pm was possible and wrote about it and Bessler too , and was at a time convinced that it could have been an impact driven device because of his own theory at that time about the impact force vs height or that Bessler discover something new .

[agor95]

Hi johannesbender

When reading your post it reminded me of the old party trick.
Where you pull a table cloth off the table while leaving the cups & saucers in position.

A violent movement dissipates more energy and any rapid change of speed causes losses.

In an ideal sim' world it is just another proportional lever. Not a lever/gear in space but time.

Regards

[Sam Peppiatt]

jb,
You are always squawking about energy, right? If a set of binary rollers weighed 1,000 pounds each and the displacement was one foot, they would raise and lower 2,000 lbs.,(1 ton), one foot twice per revolution!!

How much more energy do you need than that------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

jb,
You are always squawking about energy, right? If a set of binary rollers weighed 1,000 pounds each and the displacement was one foot, they would raise and lower 2,000 lbs.,(1 ton), one foot twice per revolution!!

How much more energy do you need than that------------------Sam

The amount more that overcomes friction plus drag and all other losses just to get the device to reset , then ontop of that add more energy for output work , stir well add seasoning according to taste.