Some reflections.

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johannesbender
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Some reflections.

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Excerpts from John Collins books .
My visitors included supporters from the highest ranks, but with them too came base parasites. Some pretended that my secrets
were already common knowledge, probably hoping that in this way I would be tricked into delivering my artistry into their greedy hands.
But I would often answer them back as if I was a mumbling shepherd. They got no word of truth from me. I got to be very good
at hiding the truth. Sometimes I fooled them with mumbo-jumbo such as made-up Latin words, and would then clam up tight again.
People would whisper that I had worn myself out with excessive study.

Never did I hear a word of praise, though I was criticised left , right and centre. But I never changed, never once wavered, because a single word could have betrayed my wondrous achievement. So, my visitors, you who come to learn my secrets, take note that I can hide behind words. I'm well versed in the art of rhetoric - so keep away. But enough of all this - suffice it to say that my work has remained intact. Since this book is already growing too fast, I'll now start writing another text.

XXXV.
Dearly-beloved doubters of the Lord's word - turn back to the true faith, and follow the teachings of Gamaliel (Acts Ch5, vs 38) contain
yourselves in patience; heaven will reveal the truth, and all will be made clear. Change hatred into reverence, but if you can't, at least
have patience! I can't gad-about with my skills and sell them like cattle. They mean much more to me than goods for sale. So - heed
the proverb; slow and steady wins the race.

Rejoice that art and skill exists for the benefit of all, and will, if God so desires it, exist till the end of the world. God dispenses his gifts,
but good things can't be rushed. I know that many people are saying that I shall never sell my skills. But the richest men always
start by keeping their own counsel before they enter the world of commerce They know the pitfalls in this business. People express
a desire to purchase what you have to offer, but make all sorts of conditions - after all, anything of real value costs more than peanuts,
and they want to see the chance of real returns. In my case they want to see that the thing can be used for practical purposes - mills,
forging, stamping etc., and not just be a curiosity in some workshop.

And then, if machines are involved, and properly-apprenticed workers are needed to operate them, they want to know their outlay
is safe. You can make a man swear on oath, but who's to say he won't be tempted to sell his secret for the price of a drink? And don't
forget that people have been killed, or other deeds of violence done, in the pursuit of such espionage. In such ways could other lands get
to grind their corn free, and we would have squandered our money in vain. Yes, all this needs to be said, and that's why I'm saying it.

People may now, of course say to me; "Dear Orffyreus, what will you do, then? Will you keep your skills to
yourself, and grow old with the secret?" "No, my friend," I reply, "no need for that, for a man who has some
commonsense, and also God's helping hand, can make the proper arrangements in matters of great importance such as this."

I do not jest, and in this matter I openly declare - if I may presume to put it thus - that my word will go out into the world. (Let anyone who
wishes write to me to say if my proposition is a practicable one.) For indeed it is my desire that with God's help great cities near and far
should one day have the benefit of my skill and that I shall be able to send out my machine into all the republics of the world. In short, it is my desire to patent my wonderful invention for public use during that unique year which is written twice with the number 17. Already I'm making all necessary arrangements, with the powerful hand of the Lord guiding me. Soon the documents will be duly drawn up, and they will spread abroad the crucial question: "Who wishes to invest in this project, and how much?"
Here are some invention patenting dates I found on a site , it would seem Bessler could have been able to patented parts of his invention if he really wanted to , perhaps in certain countries where patenting was in effect .
1608 Hans Lippershey invents the first refracting telescope.
1620 The earliest human-powered submarine invented.
1624 William Oughtred invents a slide ruler.
1625 Frenchmen, Jean-Baptiste Denys invents a method for blood transfusion.
1629 Giovanni Branca invents a steam turbine.
1636 W. Gascoigne invents the micrometer.
1642 Frenchmen, Blaise Pascal invents an adding machine.
1643 Evangelista Torricelli invents the barometer.
1650 Otto von Guericke invents a air pump.
1656 Christian Huygens invents a pendulum clock.
1660 Cuckoo clocks made in Furtwangen, Germany, in the Black Forest region.
1663 James Gregory invents the first reflecting telescope.
1668 Isaac Newton invents a reflecting telescope.
1670 The first reference to a candy cane is made.
Dom Pérignon invents Champagne.
1671 Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz invents a calculating machine.
1675 Christian Huygens patents the pocket watch.
1676 Robert Hooke invents the universal joint.
1679 Denis Papin invents the pressure cooker.
1698 Englishmen, Thomas Savery invents a steam pump.
1701 Jethro Tull invents the seed drill.
1709 Bartolomeo Cristofori invents the piano.
1711 Englishmen, John Shore invents the tuning fork.
1712 Thomas Newcomen patents the atmospheric steam engine.
1717 Edmond Halley invents the diving bell.
1722 French C. Hopffer patents the fire extinguisher.
1724 Gabriel Fahrenheit invents the first mercury thermometer.
1733 John Kay invents the flying shuttle.
1745 E.G. von Kleist invents the leyden jar, the first electrical capacitor.
1752 Benjamin Franklin invents the lightening rod.
1755 Samuel Johnson publishes the first English language dictionary on April 15th after nine years of writing. In the preface Samuel Johnson wrote, "I am not so lost in lexicography as to forget that words are the daughters of earth, and that things are the sons of heaven."
1757 John Campbell invents the sextant.
1758 Dolland invents a chromatic lens.
1761 Englishmen, John Harrison invents the navigational clock or marine chronometer for measuring longitude.
1764 James Hargreaves invents the spinning jenny.
1767 Joseph Priestley invents carbonated water - soda water.
1768 Richard Arkwright patents the spinning frame.
1769 James Watt invents an improved steam engine.
1774 Georges Louis Lesage patents the electric telegraph.
1775 Alexander Cummings invents the flush toilet.
Jacques Perrier invents a steamship.
1776 David Bushnell invents a submarine.
1779 Samuel Crompton invents the spinning mule.
1780 Benjamin Franklin invents bi-focal eyeglasses.
Gervinus invents the circular saw.
1783 Louis Sebastien demonstrates the first parachute.
Benjamin Hanks patents the self-winding clock.
Joseph Michel Montgolfier and Jacques Etienne Montgolfier invent the hot-air balloon.
Englishmen, Henry Cort invents the steel roller for steel production.
1784 Andrew Meikle invents the threshing machine.
Joseph Bramah invents the safety lock.
1785 Edmund Cartwright invents the power loom.
Claude Berthollet invents chemical bleaching.
Charles Augustus Coulomb invents the torsion balance.
Blanchard invents a working parachute.
1786 John Fitch invents a steamboat.
1789 The guillotine is invented.
1790 The United States issued its first patent to William Pollard of Philadelphia for a machine that roves and spins cotton.
1791 John Barber invents the gas turbine.
Early bicycles invented in Scotland.
1792 William Murdoch invents gas lighting.
The first ambulance.
1794 Eli Whitney patents the cotton gin.
Welshmen, Philip Vaughan invents ball bearings.
1795 Francois Appert invents the preserving jar for food.
1796 Edward Jenner creates a smallpox vaccination.
1797 Wittemore patents a carding machine.
A British inventor, Henry Maudslay invents the first metal or precision lathe.
1798 The first soft drink invented.
Aloys Senefelder invents lithography.
1799 Alessandro Volta invents the battery.
Louis Robert invents the Fourdrinier Machine for sheet paper making.
As an emphatic proof of its capabilities this device, though really little more than a model, has, to our not inconsiderable pleasure,
already passed the long-demanded month-long test, and, what is more, has in effect passed it twice
. For, after said
Wheel had been continuously, closely and many times observed for three whole months by many persons, both local and from
further afield, and of both high and low estate, I caused it, on 12" November last year (1717) to be locked away in a sealed
room. I allowed the Wheel to run for two weeks, and then, on 26" November, I repaired to the place once more, accompanied
by several of my Ministers, and in person opened up the intact seals, checked everything thoroughly, and with my own hands
brought to rest the Wheel, still revolving with undiminished energy, without violent shock. Then, with some assistance from
the Master himself, the Inventor, the Wheel was brought back into motion once more, and still greater security
precautions were taken to prevent interference. Not only were all windows locked tight, but also all the doors, including those in
the corridor leading to the room where the Wheel was situated. This was all done in Our presence and that of Our
accompanying retinue, and guards were posted and seals applied.


After all this was performed, six whole weeks were allowed to elapse, during which no one was allowed near the machine.
Then, on the 4" day of January of the Lord's new year, 1718, we betook ourselves again to our castle at Weissenstein, where
we not only recognised our impressed seals, noting that they were completely intact, but also, after the opening up of the
doors and window-shutters had been completed, we examined the Orffyrean Wheel, still continuing unabated in its
revolutions, from many angles, and noted, both in the room and outside, that there was not a single trace of anything that could
give rise to the slightest suspicion. And so, notwithstanding the fact that the inventor freely offered a longer test run, we
considered (especially as the already completed run of eight weeks had exceeded by a factor of two that which had been demanded by his adversaries) that this was quite unnecessary.

As far as the much-denied practical applications of the device are concerned, they revealed themselves firstly, through the
lifting of the chest full of stones, secondly through that of the solid wooden beams, but thirdly, and particularly,
through the fairly large Archimedes Screw — and our hopes on this score were wonderfully exceeded
. Indeed, we cannot doubt
that if the device, after suitable negotiations as to better siting than in a small room in my castle, and with better ancillary
support and fewer associated problems than have prevailed here, can be constructed on a larger scale, thus producing more
power, then the result will be (especially if several such machines can be combined in tandem) a resource of great value
in such fields as horology, milling, hydraulics and mining.


In order that all these things might be confirmed all the more strongly, we have, yielding to the inventor's most
humbly expressed request, not only appended to this testimonial our own signature, adding to it the great Seal of our
Dynasty, after the most mature consideration, but further, we strongly exhort all people, of whatever class or rank they may be
(and in the case of our own subjects we not only exhort but command) that our aforementioned Kommerzienrat Orffyreus,
who, by virtue of his service with us enjoys our protection, should on account of this, his most wonderful, but as yet not
widely appreciated invention, not be burdened by unjust accusations, but rather should, when he requests it or is
otherwise seen to require it, enjoy all the assistance, protection and promotional goodwill that can be offered him.


The which we are at any time most graciously pleased to repeat on request, even in legally binding terms, to any
person, depending upon his rank; to our own subjects this shall serve as a solemn proclamation.


Kassel, 27" May, 1718 KARL
Some reflections:

Karl increased the security after the first inspection , and then let it run under the tighter security again , so if Bessler could have had any way in for himself or someone else , the second time around would seem to have been likely impossible.

To think Bessler wanted to patent it and not let it get lost to history and yet here we are , and reading the writings of Karl it would seem to me there is a valid argument that Karl thought the invention was worth a fair price and not "Karl thought it was worthless" like some say , I think a fair remark would be that it was overpriced but not worthless.
Last edited by johannesbender on Mon Jan 08, 2024 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Some reflections.

Post by Sam Peppiatt »

It's not worth less. Is that the best you can say for it, jb? I say it's not as worthless as you and others seam to think-----------------Sam
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Re: Some reflections.

Post by daxwc »

JB I think most people on that list were working in England and France.

Me: Was there patent laws in Hess or Saxony in 1717?
ChatGPT
In 1717, both Hesse and Saxony were part of the Holy Roman Empire. During that time, patent laws were not unified across the empire, and the concept of intellectual property rights was not as developed as it is today. Each region or state within the Holy Roman Empire might have had its own regulations and practices regarding inventions and patents. However, it's important to note that the modern patent system, as we know it, began to take shape in the 19th century. If you have specific details about a particular location within Hesse or Saxony in 1717, it might be possible to explore historical records to find more information about local regulations on inventions and patents during that period.
Last edited by daxwc on Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Some reflections.

Post by johannesbender »

daxwc wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:09 pm JB I think most people on that list were working in England.

Me: Was there patent laws in Hess or Saxony in 1717?
ChatGPT
In 1717, both Hesse and Saxony were part of the Holy Roman Empire. During that time, patent laws were not unified across the empire, and the concept of intellectual property rights was not as developed as it is today. Each region or state within the Holy Roman Empire might have had its own regulations and practices regarding inventions and patents. However, it's important to note that the modern patent system, as we know it, began to take shape in the 19th century. If you have specific details about a particular location within Hesse or Saxony in 1717, it might be possible to explore historical records to find more information about local regulations on inventions and patents during that period.
Correct this is why I say other countries , he could perhaps have been able to try and patent in another country or such (if he was seriously looking in to it) , or some other form of protection.
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Re: Some reflections.

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Sam Peppiatt wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 2:45 pm It's not worth less. Is that the best you can say for it, jb? I say it's not as worthless as you and others seam to think-----------------Sam
Not sure where you get the idea that I think or have said/written that it was/is worthless.
To think Bessler wanted to patent it and not let it get lost to history and yet here we are , and reading the writings of Karl it would seem to me there is a valid argument that Karl thought the invention was worth a fair price and not "Karl thought it was worthless" like some say , I think a fair remark would be that it was overpriced but not worthless.
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Re: Some reflections.

Post by thx4 »

Science doesn't know that Bessler existed and is (deliberately) ignoring it.
https://youtu.be/oLeZezrZBTk?si=QcrR02Rb8N9IhIE0

This morning I watched this video on "Is energy conserved?", and at no point is Bessler mentioned, which is a pity.
In any case, as far as science is concerned, the Bessler affair left nothing behind, so that's the end of the story.
The funny thing is that the physicist giving the lecture, whose father was a renowned surgeon, spent his retirement building impossible machines, remarkable as they seem.
After watching this video, you're going to have to be very, very strong 🙂
All we've got is Bessler, so pray for us...
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Re: Some reflections.

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I don't believe that Bessler was a liar as I have said many times.

The notion that he was a liar doesn't really make sense from the story as it unfolded and from the things he said. He would of have to of been both insane and a man of genius to come up with such a special machine and to dare meddle with people of such standing.

The only thing that has occured to me is that the story itself may be false. If it was false this could only have been accomplished by people way up for reasons unknown.

I am not qualified to know how or why such a thing could have been done. What I do know is that there is no real reason for people high up to keep on rubbishing the story of Bessler especially if it is a made up one but they doggidly persist in doing it.

This tells me the story is true. For anyone who as been wondering about this I hope this helps.
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Re: Some reflections.

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Roxaway59 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:58 pm I don't believe that Bessler was a liar as I have said many times.
The problem is to believe or to know, for the moment we know NOTHING...
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Re: Some reflections.

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Right; seams like the critics always win. I say to hell with them-----------------Sam
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Re: Some reflections.

Post by Roxaway59 »

I don't see people believing or even thinking that they know something as a problem especially if that person tries to introduce new ideas and shares their thoughts on mechanisms that may help us discover the prime mover.
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Re: Some reflections.

Post by johannesbender »

My visitors included supporters from the highest ranks, but with them too came base parasites. Some pretended that my secrets
were already common knowledge, probably hoping that in this way I would be tricked into delivering my artistry into their greedy hands.
But I would often answer them back as if I was a mumbling shepherd. They got no word of truth from me. I got to be very good
at hiding the truth
. Sometimes I fooled them with mumbo-jumbo such as made-up Latin words, and would then clam up tight again.
People would whisper that I had worn myself out with excessive study.
Well the man was not about to cluck , by his own words he was good at hiding the truth and avoiding it , so unless someone comes along with something real and undeniable , science unfortunately regards things like this as pseudoscience and taboo .
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Re: Some reflections.

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Like I say jb, you always win and you always will-----------------Sam
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Re: Some reflections.

Post by Roxaway59 »

science unfortunately regards things like this as pseudoscience and taboo.

Disbelieving scientists are in luck. Three hundred years ago they were in luck too because they had a perfect opportunity to make a name for themselves.

All they had to do was recreate a wheel that acted like Besslers but guess what? They failed, and not just a little bit, they failed spectacularly.

Now all these years later anyone who wishes to has got a golden opportunity to make a name for themselves. Maybe even some people on this forum. All you have to do is recreate a wheel that behaves like the one at the castle and that would certainly grab most peoples attention including mine.

So what do modern scientist actually do? They usual say Bessler was a fraud, the maid said so, there's nothing to see here. Not very scientific is it and if scientists even know about Bessler they don’t seem to bother telling anyone else.

Unfortunately science is not the pursuit of truth. In reality it is the pursuit of funding. A scientist can get funding to pursue what is acceptable science but not for things that challenge accepted science.

The people who dish out the money for this accepted science are very often people with a vested interest in keeping certain things quiet.

Besslers prime mover is a mystery for the time being but if I had to guess I would say that its a weight shifting mechanism that operates a lever in an unusual way and that’s the kind of mechanism I am experimenting with.
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Re: Some reflections.

Post by Tarsier79 »

I have seen this conversation happen many times here.

Science is based on observation and measurement. Bessler never showed his wheel, and science has not ever measured an OU, which by the way is what is required for a purely mechanical wheel that doesn't "steal" energy from an external source.

If you supply a scientist with a working BW, there will be plenty of funding to investigate it.
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Re: Some reflections.

Post by johannesbender »

Yea , Neil Degrasse Tyson could get in to the believe vs facts debate on many videos i have seen on youtube , to put it blunt , science does not care about opinion believed religion or such , the only thing that matters to science is data that can be used to proof or disproof what is real and what is not , which i fully agree with .

We cant base emperical facts on believes and faith .
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