Posted by Nick Hall (195.74.122.243) on May 14, 2003 at 12:55:08:
In Reply to: Nick Hall posted by Hiinton on May 14, 2003 at 11:33:07:
Hinton wrote:
: Nick a question. Do from your last letter, do you believe in a pereptual motion wheel, or do you agree with ovyyus and maybe even JC and some others that it might be a hybrid system. Using gravity, and heat or some other?
I don't believe in a "perperual motion wheel" if you use a classical _understanding_ of PM which is that once moving, the device continues to move "per se" - "of itself" - as a result of internal mechanical impulses alone.
This was probably Bessler's understanding - if so he was incorrect. This is no criticism of Bessler - you can make a valid discovery even if you articulate it's theory wrongly.
I DO believe that Bessler (and others) succeeded in making a rotary device capable of continuous energy input from gravity such that it not only 'kept going' but provided additional useful output energy.
In Bessler's day, ideas about "weight" were hazy and platonic - despite Newton's work (which took time to filter through to give us toady's understanding of weight as being a 'product' of gravity operating on mass).
You can see this unclear thinking in the progression of Wolf's thoughts following his examination of Bessler's wheel. Wolf begins his report to Czar Peter the Great thus:
"To begin with, it would appear beyond doubt that Orffyreus' wheel is not moved by any imaginable external force..."
but he later says:
"Since it is impossible, according to mathematical proof, for a machine to run continuously bu its own force, SOME MATTER FROM OUTSIDE MUST CONTRIBUTE TO ITS MOTION..."
Interestingly, he says later:
"It is possible therefore, that when the internal structure of the wheel has been revealed, some mathematician may decide that it is not a perpetual motion machine as there is an additional force involved....."
(Quotes from John Collins "Perpetual Motion - An Ancient Mystery Solved?" pp131f http://www.free-energy.co.uk)
So for the likes of Wolf, the description of Bessler's wheel as an example of "Perpetual Motion" would not be appropriate if there was an energy input from outside the system - which indeed there was!
Of course to us, the term is irrelevant - the real point is that Bessler figured out a way to get energy from a gravity - a "conservative force".
Nick