Re: Question for John Collins

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Posted by Darren (208.143.232.66) on June 03, 2003 at 08:47:19:

In Reply to: Re: Question for John Collins posted by Lurker on June 02, 2003 at 20:52:27:

: I wish you luck with your endeavor, but I doubt it will succeed even if you can produce a working device.

Okay. You're entitled to your opinion :-)

: One of the reasons why over-unity devices have not become publicly available is precisely because the inventors believe they will be welcomed by the scientific establishment once they have produced a working device. Believing this, they go through all of the traditional channels such as getting a patent, trying to sell the rights to a large company, etc. I cannot even begin to describe how many times this sort of thing has happened in the past, only to have the invention buried, never to be heard of again, so to speak.

Ahh, I see now... you are one of them. Free energy exists but has been buried by men in black... or the big companies... or the oil producing countries... or aliens... Big conspiracy theory. Sorry, I don't buy it, not even a little.

: Bessler himself followed a similer path. He thought that proving his device was enough. It wasn't. It will probably be the same with you. Again, I wish you luck, but I doubt you will get far. In the mean time, we will all keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.

Okay, whatever :-)

: As for me being paranoid? Let me tell you something about that. To fear a monster which does not exist is being paranoid. To fear a monster which you KNOW exists is to be sensibly cautious. I am sensibly cautious.

Ahh, but my seven year old "knows" there are monsters under his bed... is he paranoid? Maybe. I could easily argue that you "know" there are monsters in society ready to snap up the unwary garage scientist, and that you "know" there are other FE solutions out there already. It's all silliness in my opinion. The *only* thing to do with this or anything else in life that's unknown or scary is to A) employ a normal and reasonable amount of caution, and B) move forward - do not let your fears cripple you. Are there bad guys out there in the world? Of course. Will I let the fear of that stop me? That's the real question, isn't it? Until they show their face they are nothing more than monsters under the bed, and I refuse to let my fears (or yours for that matter) cripple me :-)

: You are paranoid when you think that the people here would "steal" your idea and get credit for it.

Since I have no real *evidence* that this particular group of Bessler enthusiasts would do that then yes, you're right, but you forget that this forum is open to the world and millions of people have access to it's contents. There is *plenty* of evidence that the rest of the world would steal your ideas and leave you in the dirt. I think I would trust several of the people on this forum, but publishing something wide open for the whole world to see... and assume they won't steal your idea... that's just dumb.

: If you were to describe it in detail and let it be posted here, this would be a public record. It would prove beyond all doubt that this is YOUR idea, that YOU had it first (assuming it is different from everyone else's of course).

Sorry, that statement is just totally wrong. Wouldn't stand up in court, wouldn't even stand up in general discussion. I mean, you made that statement and then you even qualified it yourself, at the end... "assuming it is different...." meaning that even without thinking hard about it there would be situations where it could be argued. Nah, you're way off. Think of it this way... many people believe that if you write down your idea in detail and mail it to yourself in a registered letter that's enough to establish, legally, your intelectual property, your rights to the idea, that the idea is yours... but there's precedent in patent law that says this is definitely false... mailing a letter to yourself is *not* sufficient to prove ownership of an idea. So no, based on patent, copyright, and intelectual property law you must do a whole lot more than just publish your ideas on a website to prove ownership.

: Of course, if you made this idea under the bed. And your arguments are basically moot anyway as I do not plan to patent it :-)

Thanks for the comments!

Darren

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Comments:	: : I wish you luck with your endeavor, but I doubt it will succeed even if you can produce a working device. : : Okay. You're entitled to your opinion :-) : : : One of the reasons why over-unity devices have not become publicly available is precisely because the inventors believe they will be welcomed by the scientific establishment once they have produced a working device. Believing this, they go through all of the traditional channels such as getting a patent, trying to sell the rights to a large company, etc. I cannot even begin to describe how many times this sort of thing has happened in the past, only to have the invention buried, never to be heard of again, so to speak. : : Ahh, I see now... you are one of them. Free energy exists but has been buried by men in black... or the big companies... or the oil producing countries... or aliens... Big conspiracy theory. Sorry, I don't buy it, not even a little. : : : Bessler himself followed a similer path. He thought that proving his device was enough. It wasn't. It will probably be the same with you. Again, I wish you luck, but I doubt you will get far. In the mean time, we will all keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best. : : Okay, whatever :-) : : : As for me being paranoid? Let me tell you something about that. To fear a monster which does not exist is being paranoid. To fear a monster which you KNOW exists is to be sensibly cautious. I am sensibly cautious. : : Ahh, but my seven year old "knows" there are monsters under his bed... is he paranoid? Maybe. I could easily argue that you "know" there are monsters in society ready to snap up the unwary garage scientist, and that you "know" there are other FE solutions out there already. It's all silliness in my opinion. The only thing to do with this or anything else in life that's unknown or scary is to A) employ a normal and reasonable amount of caution, and B) move forward - do not let your fears cripple you. Are there bad guys out there in the world? Of course. Will I let the fear of that stop me? That's the real question, isn't it? Until they show their face they are nothing more than monsters under the bed, and I refuse to let my fears (or yours for that matter) cripple me :-) : : : You are paranoid when you think that the people here would "steal" your idea and get credit for it. : : Since I have no real evidence that this particular group of Bessler enthusiasts would do that then yes, you're right, but you forget that this forum is open to the world and millions of people have access to it's contents. There is plenty of evidence that the rest of the world would steal your ideas and leave you in the dirt. I think I would trust several of the people on this forum, but publishing something wide open for the whole world to see... and assume they won't steal your idea... that's just dumb. : : : If you were to describe it in detail and let it be posted here, this would be a public record. It would prove beyond all doubt that this is YOUR idea, that YOU had it first (assuming it is different from everyone else's of course). : : Sorry, that statement is just totally wrong. Wouldn't stand up in court, wouldn't even stand up in general discussion. I mean, you made that statement and then you even qualified it yourself, at the end... "assuming it is different...." meaning that even without thinking hard about it there would be situations where it could be argued. Nah, you're way off. Think of it this way... many people believe that if you write down your idea in detail and mail it to yourself in a registered letter that's enough to establish, legally, your intelectual property, your rights to the idea, that the idea is yours... but there's precedent in patent law that says this is definitely false... mailing a letter to yourself is not sufficient to prove ownership of an idea. So no, based on patent, copyright, and intelectual property law you must do a whole lot more than just publish your ideas on a website to prove ownership. : : : Of course, if you made this idea public, you would not be able to patent it. : : I agree with you in that I don't think patenting is the answer, but no, your statement about patents is wrong. You could still patent it. It gets more complicated and there's room for more lititgation, but publishing an idea does not preclude you from patenting that idea. : : : I doubt patenting it will do anyone any good anyway, least of all you. : : I agree... but I'm also pretty sure I never mentioned patenting anything. Where is all this coming from? : : : First of all, patents only last for about 20 years anyway. So, assuming you have a working device, and that you patent it, you will only have 20 years of legal monopoly over the device. It may take you many years to actually get the patent, and a great deal of money. If and when you get a patent, you will need to form a company which can build and market a product, or find some company that is willing to by the rights to it. To make a long story short, past history demonstrates that this strategy will not work. You might succeed in getting a lot of money, but your device will be buried, and you will need to keep quiet about it. It will not become publicly available. : : Again, the conspiracy theories. Sorry, those are just more monsters under the bed. And your arguments are basically moot anyway as I do not plan to patent it :-) : Thanks for the comments! : Darren
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