Re: Anyone see this?


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Posted by Darren (208.143.232.66) on June 04, 2003 at 15:48:45:

In Reply to: Re: Anyone see this? posted by Lurker on June 04, 2003 at 13:44:41:

: Let me define "Men in Black" for you. Forget about Hollywood stereotypes. Instead, think about someone like Bill Gates, only he has a secret that he wants to keep. He wants to keep this secret because it is, after all, the source of his power and wealth.


Okay...


: To be more precise, a "man in black" is an individual who has a secret that can bring great power and wealth to anyone who knows it, and they are willing to do underhanded and illegal things to make sure that they are the only ones who can make use of this secret. "Man in Black" can also refer to those who do the dirty work for men who have such secrets.


Okay...


: Now, suppose Microsoft, or any other powerful company or organization in the world, has a competitor which threatens it's monopoly of wealth and power. What will such an organization do? The answer is self-evident. It will attempt to protect it's self-interest. Micrisoft has been convicted of anticompetitive practices, for example. In other words, it has resorted to illegal means to put competitors out of buisness, and keep them from becoming successful.


What you say is true, but you're forgetting one important detail...they *thought* they could get away with it... they *thought* they could keep it secret. Yes, these entities you speak of might be willing to take the chance of destroying themselves if they think the risk is great enough or think they will be able to get away with it. But they didn't get to be powerful through purely illegal activities... they are also smart enough to realize that if the world changes they must also adapt and change their business strategies. Microsoft is doing this now because they got caught and are forced to... many other companies do that without being forced because it's the smarter thing to do. If these entities know that "the secret" is out of the bag and that it has become open knowledge then they're not going to snuff you, that wouldn't accomplish a thing, they're simply going to adopt and adapt, or die.


: It is quite possible that some large energy corporations already have knowlege of processes which produce more energy than they consume. Naturally, they will take steps to keep this knolege from the public. Doing this would usually not be difficult. You need only buy out those who do occationally discover the secret by themselves. You may also intimidate those who can not be bought out. Lawyers can often do the trick, but physical force may sometimes also be used if necessary.


When you argue against my theory that FE hasn't been discovered yet because it's hard and the trained don't believe you make fairly logical points... but here you make no sense at all (depending on who these scary entities are)... for instance... assume we're talking about a large corporation that buys oil products and uses them to fuel power generation equipment that feeds your house through the grid... if they didn't have to buy oil products anymore they would, in a very short time, become vastly more wealthy than they are now. Most people aren't going to unplug from the grid and run their house off a Bessler wheel... they're going to stay plugged in and expect a huge rate decrease. Running free generators these companies could lower the consumer cost of household power and still make many times the profit they do now.

It's all conjecture but I definitely feel that there are just as many large and powerful corporations out there that would want this to happen as there are those that would want to stop it. Let those guys battle it out with one another.


: In the mean time, you can encourage the scam-artists and other frauds to put up a smoke screen to prevent the public from seeing what is really going on. Everyone then "knows" that perpetual motion and free energy is "impossible". After all, look at all the frauds who claim to have discoverd it. The fact that most of them are deluded or frauds gives the impression that ALL of them must be deluded or frauds. Many of these frauds may be deliberately consructed simply to put up However, it seems that Darren is wrong.


It seems *to you* that I'm wrong, but since you don't have any idea of how many "trained" people ae working on this, and you don't know how difficult the solution is, then you have no grounds to say whether I'm wrong or not.


: Many trained physicists DO believe it may be possible, and some of them have even created devices that defy our current understanding of physics.


"Many"? How many? Who are they? Where are they?


: We must also keep in mind that the only person to have ever seen inside Bessler's machine is reported to have said that it was so simple that he was surprised that no one else had ever discovered how to build such a machine before Bessler.


That Karl guy gets quoted alot, doesn't he? And every time I hear him quoted it changes slightly...

Look at it this way... If I took someone from Bessler's time (or even earlier) and showed him a very basic, very simple ten-speed bike with shifting gears he'd say wow, that's so amazing and simple... but they weren't invented until much later. things look simple in hindsight, doesn't mean it was easy to come up with the idea in the first place.


: Indeed. If perpetual motion and free energy really is possible, then it is made possible by a simple physical principle that any intelligent person could potentially discover in the right circumstances.


I wouldn't agree with the statement that *any* intelligent person could, but yes, it should have been found long ago. It's not *that* hard, but it is difficult enough to put off all but the most dedicated and presistent. And most classicaly trianed folks don't stick around that long because... "it's not possible" :-)


: It is simply not credible that Besler was the ONLY person in history to have ever discovered it.


That's your opinion. It makes perfect sense to me. Bessler devoted *decades* to development. Now take all the people today and in the past who had the skills to figure this out and tell me how many of them have spent that much time on the problem... now assume that a percentage of the result will have simply missed the answer... and a percentage of the rest will have died, gone bankrupt, lost interest, etc. To me it's entirely possible it's happened that way.

Darren


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