Re: Some engineering thoughts


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Posted by Scott Ellis (216.87.95.64) on February 19, 2002 at 20:17:52:

In Reply to: Some engineering thoughts posted by L. P. Marken on February 18, 2002 at 12:19:27:

Hi Lars, thanks for your post.

First, I'd like to point out that a machine that taps into any of the natural motions you describe would be made out of mechanical parts, and possibly even weights. Thus, it is perfectly consistent to seek a way of tapping into, say, the earth's kinetic or rotational energy, using mechanical devices and contraptions.

You say that none of the natural forces you describe could account for the documented behavior of the wheel. What makes you so sure? The gravitational force of the moon is quite strong; just look at the work it does on the oceans every day.

Also, the kinetic energy and angular momentum of the earth are enormous. In fact they are astronomical. ;)

Finally, to argue that something is impossible "because someone would have invented it by now if it WERE possible" is extremely poor logic, and has been shown again and again to lead to erroneous conclusions. One could have used the same argument about human flight less than 100 years ago. (Please see my historical perspective on human flight.)

I think the real question comes down to gravity. The fact is that we really don't understand it. It is the last natural force yet to be unified into a general theory of the universe. We're not even sure what causes it. Therefore, IMHO, it seems a bit premature to rule out our ability to somehow tap its force.

(If you think we actually understand gravity, please see this link, there are thousands more like it.)


Did you know that the universe's rate of the expansion is accelerating? It is, and here are some links about it:

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9802/27/accelerating.universe/
http://www.msnbc.com/news/224520.asp
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0104/03supernova/
http://focus.aps.org/v5/st8.html
http://enews.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/SNAP-1.html
http://www.sciencenews.org/20010407/bob14.asp
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/generalscience/darkenergy_folo_010410.html

If there is some force constantly accelerating the universe's rate of expansion, isn't it possible that we could tap that force?

Just my $0.02.
-Scott Ellis


: Hello all,

: I found the besslerwheel site yesterday. It makes fascinating reading, but I find it a bit strange that people in our time and age are STILL trying to make a PM wheel by using weights and mechanical parts.

: I firmly believe that if some bisarre twist of nature made such a design possible, someone (besides Bessler) would have figured it out hundreds of years ago. The way I understand mechanics, there is no way it could be done.

: Approaches that COULD work would have to tap into the environment in one way or another, using

: - the Moon's gravitational pull
: - assymmetric properties of the Earth's rotation
: - variations in barometric pressure
: - variations in temperature
: - solar energy
: - cosmic radiation

: ... those are the ones I can think of right now.

: BUT: None of the mentioned approaches could possibly give the results described in the accounts of Bessler's wheel. It did not only rotate, it was able to do considerable work. It had to be fraud, I can see no other alternative.

: I think the way to approach the Bessler mystery is not "how can I make a PM wheel using 1700s parts?" but rather "How can I create an illusion of a PM wheel that would fool everyone in the 1700s, using 1700s parts?"

: I leave a small opening for the possibility that a chemical reaction of some


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