Re: Karls payroll


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Posted by John Collins (194.164.38.91) on February 06, 2003 at 23:26:00:

In Reply to: Re: Karls payroll posted by grim on February 06, 2003 at 18:08:23:

: Hi Grim, you will know that I did just as you have described below and researched deeply into all witnesses of the wheel. I did not eliminate them from my enquiry but added all facts as I found them and commented on what I found, so if I though a witness was suspect I said so. In my opinion you cannot dismiss Woff's evidnce for the following reasons. Firstly Karl as ruler of the State founded and payed for the universities and thus their employees. So are you going to elimiate everyone who witnessed the wheel who lived and worked in or near to Kassel?

Secondly patronage was a respected and widely used form of assistance in those days. You were either independantly wealthy because you inherited wealth as member of royalty or acquired it as a mechant. Everything else was a struggle to survive and no one else had time for scientific experiments - except for Bessler who was obssessed (as most of us are -grin!) So there is no reason to suspect Woff's motives and if you read his letters, all published in my book (sorry for mentioning it again)you will see that he came very slowly to a conclusion that the wheel worked, but he had other motives.

Before Bessler received Karl's patronage Dennis Papin held a similar position at Kassel and he is widely regarded as the original inventor of the steam engine (and still is in his native France). He left karl to live in London as a guest of the Royal Society.

There is much more that I could say about Wolff and his conclusions - and I agree that his flexible arms expanation is doubtful, but remember it was only speculation on his part, he hadn't seen the interior of the wheel.

My point is this Grim, I have no objection to your checking the veracity of the witnesses, in fact I welcome it, but am worried that all this work is merely duplicating what I have already done and will detract from what we really are trying to accomplish and that is a solution to Bessler's wheel.

With respect, John C.

As I posted before, unbiased research demands a look at both the pro's and con's of any subject matter. All this does for me is possibly elimnate Wolff as an unbiased witness. That leaves several other big names in science at that time who witnessed this thing and inspected for fraud, including Gravensande, who reported directly to Isaac Newton.
: I never did buy Wolff's explanation of "flexible" or "drooping" arms with weights, that design can be found on any skeptic's website, plus the web pages of unworkable devices shows that design and gives a very exacting explanation why it doesn't run.
: I'm going to do some more background research on the witnesses, check their association with Karl, if any exists, and whomever is not associated after screening will be the witnesses that I will listen to.

: Also, as I stated before, I believe it would be just as tough to make the mech to fake this as it would be to recreate the "genuine article". I've seen the weights I have here move this wheel; position of weights really does cause motion, and eventually a simple auxilliary mech will come to mind to accomplish this. Bessler's clues are misleading,
: so one must go back to observable basics and work forward from there. It's fun to get a step to work and compare it to his cryptics, but like Nostradamus' prophecies, you can read your own work into his writings if you try hard enough.

:
: Regards,


: grim

:




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