Prophet Yahweh 'calls' UFO using secret Old Testament discovery

[Jonathan]

Regarding the Mexican infrared UFOs, I heard recently that they may have been caused by plumes of hot air/smoke coming from an oil platform.
About that old art site, I used to think those were convincing, more so than I do now. I thought the "Madonna with Saint Giovannino" was really interesting, but I have heard that it's probably depicting Luk 2:9-14. Another example is "The Baptism of Christ", which seems clearly to be a depiction of Mat 3:16-17.
I find the Nuremburg woodcuts I linked to quite interesting because the only religious connotation is how the eyewitnesses interpreted the meaning of the event. Otherwise, it is just something strange that happened and which was reported in the local newsletter.
I want to hear all the details of the UFO at 300ft.
I tend away from the military explaination, because many people have claimed there are occupants of some sort in the craft, and it is not known how to keep occupants alive during the g-forces of the extreme maneuvers reported. Unless of course the gov't has developed whole, brand new fields of science in secret, which though not unthinkable is unpleasant at least (I wanna know!).

[ken_behrendt]

From years of studying the UFO phenomenon, it is obvious that about 90+% of the reported sightings are either natural or conventional phenomena, hoaxes, or hallucinations. However, the remainder are, in my opinion, the REAL thing...actual extraterrestrial space / aircraft operating in our planet's atmosphere and piloted, in most cases, by extraterrestrial beings.

That part does not surprise or disturb me. I have always tried to focus on what methods our "visitors" might employ to be able to journey across the immense gulfs of interstellar space to safely arrive in our skies.

Obviously, they are NOT using the clumsy rocket technology of 21st century earth. I believe they have solved the problem of rendering ordinarily massive objects completely MASSLESS. In this state, their craft are able to engage in a kind of gravity free, inertialess flight that accounts for the amazing aerodynamic performances they display in the lower levels of our atmosphere. In space, a state of masslessness would allow a larger carrier craft to readily accelerate to speeds far in excess of the normally limiting velocity of light. At "hyper-light" velocities in the thousands or even tens of thousands of times that of light, their ships will actually operate OUTSIDE the limits of Einsteinian Relativity Theory and be able to engage in real time interstellar voyages that only last a few weeks or months!

If anybody wants to learn more about my approach to UFO propulsion, he should check out the article titled "A UFO Propulsion Primer" on my website.

ken

[jtolan]

ovyyus, interesting web site about Medieval art. But I am not fully convinced. Its art to me and if somebody paints a hat off to the side of a person, for whatever artistic reason, are we going to assume its a saucer? It's open for BIG debate. Also a wheel, a comet with a person in it, etc. Its art not meant to be taken literally. You and others can belive what you want but I don't buy it. Also, why would they be painting round things with beams of sunlight falling down on Jesus at his baptism? Well the artists had their own ideas what it was, not a dove like the bible says, but the sun which is round and shines light. These people were non believers in the exact words of the Bible so they improvised, now we improvise some more and a "dove" is now a UFO, how ridiculous. By the way, the only thing that comes close to machinery in the bible is the Ezekel vision of the glory of God, but if one reads it carefully it does not talk about a saucer, but a platform with a throne above it , and strange beings with eyes all over and some independent unconnected wheels within wheels , again alive with eyes all over them. That's so far removed from a modern day saucer like I show in the photos. Then there is the "flaming chariot" seen by Elisha when his master Elijah was taken up to heaven. He saw horses too, so yes it was a chariot with horses, why would God show that to him? I don't know, why not take Elijah off the earth like Jesus went up , started floating up. Just some questions to think about.

Jonathan,
I heard the same things about the Mexican IR video. People just make up stories to discredit it. Its such a good video, backed by Mexican AF. They've caught the US trespassing on their airspace infra-red handed. LOL

...occupants alive during the g-forces of the extreme maneuvers reported

.

let me tell you something Jonathan, have you ever been to an air show? Have you seen jets at a distance seem to sharply change direction? That's what it is in my opinion. At great distances from an observer a turning radius of 100 yards seems like a sharp 90 degree turn that should smash the occupants. There is no artificial gravity, but they could have it, its certainly a possibility. I like to be practical though, and like I mentioned before the simples explanation is usually the correct one.

So you want to know my story huh? LOL
Ok, here it is.

It was a rainy morning in January 1999 in the city of Spokane, WA. I walked out to my car, parked on a hill above the freeway facing the freeway which was down below where I was parked (100' down or so on a slant) Well the cloud cover was down about 500' and it was raining lightly. Kind of a miserable day to be out.

As I put the keys in the ignition I glanced up and saw a black "balloon" about the size of a penny held at arms length. It was just below the cloud level slightly obscured by the mist at probably 300 feet away perhaps or maybe closer. I did not give it much importance at first because I thought it must be a spheres placed on high tension wires so helicopters/planes don't run into them. As I started backing up of the parking lot, a thought went through my head that I had not seen any spheres on high tension wires before in that area, so I glanced back at it to take another look.

Well, what do you know, the round object was now appeared as a line at a 45 degree slant to the ground, still the same length as the radius of the round sphere I saw. Then as I watched it in amazement, I realized it was a wobbling disk, like a top, that wobbled very very slowly, maybe its procession rate was about 2 seconds, so it would turn into a line at 45 degrees sloping up to the RIGHT, then change to an almost round object(elliptic maybe) then to a 45 degree sloping line up to the LEFT, back to a round object and so forth. My mind quickly realized it was no ordinary object, not only was it almost stationary (drifting slightly above the freeway, surveillance maybe?) but it was definitely a wobbling DISK. I watched for about 2 minutes as it wobbled and slowly drifted away into the mist of that rainy day. By the way, it did have some thickness to it, I would say 1/5 the length of it. I don't remember seeing a bulge in the center or anything like that just a disk, no other finer features were visible just the basic shape of a wobbling disk.

For those who don't know, Fairchild AFB is on the outskirts of Spokane. A military installation in proximity to the sighting like I've said before. Also, a lot of people have told me they've seen UFOs before in Spokane.

Well, I learned something from this sighting, and that is that they use gyroscopic action to stabilize. Makes so much sense. Why would it wobble like a top? It also makes sense that round things like disks must be rotating (not necessarily though), but its sure tempting to surmise from the round shape that its intended to rotate.

Let me tell you about my other sighting which happened right over my company's plant late one night.

I was working at a company in Texas in the late 90's (Raytheon) and they had an outfit out in the boonies outside of Dallas. Well late at night the planes we worked on would be flying about to test the electronics and such and I remember that if I drove out at night I could see this bright lights coming from the airstrip and plant. Apparently people worked there at night. Well one winter day, as I was driving back from a nearby town around 11 o'clock I leaned forward to take a look at the beautiful night sky with all the starts lit. I could also see light from the ground in the distance where my plant was and some tiny lights buzzing around that general area (planes we worked on being flown and tested) Well, what do you know, out of high up in the sky, a shooting start fell right towards the plant. It flashed across half the night sky in less then half a second, and to my amazement, headed right towards the plant in the distance, .... BUT... it stoped suddenly right above the plant and began to mingle with the planes that were flying about. It was so startling and sudden, but before I could think to much about it, it shot back up where it came from, just like that, in less then a second or so.

Wow, I was so thrilled. So the next day, I told one of my trusted engineer friends at the company what I saw and he told me he had some interesting sightings before in other places. It was good to be able to share with somebody. Later I found out our innocent airport had some secret buildings where nobody knew what went on (black vault or box, was the term they used, I belive, not uncommon though, we have "vaults" here where I now work) So, knowing what I know, my conclusion of the matter was that they probably flew in to test the systems (on our planes, or theirs) to see how they react to the interference etc. (Raytheon is in the electronics business in case people don't know)

And what the heck, while I'm on it I'll tell you about my other close range sighting, also back in Spokane WA.

One winter night I was driving back out the the Moscow, IDAHO area late one sunday evening around midnight, since I procrastinated too much and wasn't all that eger to return to the University dorm life from the nice comforts of home and good food :) Well, I knew I had to drive cause I had classes in the morning and it was easier for me to drive at night then get up really early and drive. Well, not to far out from Spokane I was passing through a valley or slight canyon going south when in the distance I saw a bundle of colored lights like from an airplane. I would say they were clustered together at a height of about 3 times the hight of the pine trees above this one hill up ahead.

There was no moon out, and the night sky was clear. I kept on driving thinking it was an airplane and that the sensation I had that the object was stationary was due to my motion relative to it (planes sometimes seem stationary when viewed from a moving car, especially if they're coming at you :). Well, as I drove down this road right in the direction of the object, I noticed it did not move, as I rounded a corner and went up the hill a bit, right in the vicinity of where these lights were, I was soon driving parallel to it, (it was on my driver side and I could look out my side window right at it).

So what did I do, I stoped the car and pulled over. By the way this was my first sighting and I did not belive in UFOs at the time(well didn't give them much thought). I got out and there was no noise. I was probably 100 yards away from something with lots of lights right above the trees on the side of the road. There it was. You could see stars all around and get an impression that an object was blocking out some stars. This object had red, blue, yellow, green etc lights on it in a hap hazard pattern (not even a pattern, just lights here and there pretty close to each other) I watched for about a minute in the silence of the night wondering what in the world that could be, it just sat there. Then I got a nasty wave of fear just come over me and got in my car and got out of there. As I drove away I looked in my rereview mirror and it was still there. I didn't know what it was but it was odd. As soon as I got back to school I forgot about it , test, exams were coming up etc. (I think this sighting occurred in December before the Xmas break) Anyway, the following friday as I drove home to Spokane during daylight, I passed the exact place where I saw it and stoped to check out the area. There was nothing there but trees. No towers, no houses, just pine trees.

My conclusion, a UFO, could of been a blimp, a ballon, kids playing pranks, I don't know, but it was weird.

One more one more :)

I was in San Diego around when the war in Afganistan was starting and one evening I was out at the pool and in the jacuzzi relaxing and looking up at the stars. When what do you think I saw? A freakin black triangle. It had no lights on it, and the only reason I saw it is because the was enough lighting from the city to illuminate it and also it blocked some stars as it moved, so that triggered my attention. Silent as can be (above the bubbling water in the jaccuzi) and no lights on it. I think it was a B2 bomber in my opinion but for some reason I remember it was a perfect triangle, but I could be mistaken, maybe the tail end did have the 'W' pattern to it. No lights, is what's interesting I think, some clandestine mission (operations in Afganistan ramp up?)

As some know the Miramar Marine Core Air Station (MCAS) is there along with some other military installations but I was close to Mira Mesa at the time. By the way, if one is ever down there there is such an odd secretive building not far from MCAS (across the street at one west corder of it) It looks like a Shopping Mall with parking lots and lots of building connected with decorations just like a Mall would have, but all the windows have a white curtain on them and there are cameras at every corner and window, it seems. Very odd, I would pass by there a number of times going to La Jolla, to the beach, and would wonder what the heck it was. The fascinating part is , they have a round building that's about 150 feet in diameter and 20 to 30 feet tall with no roof on it (at least can't see the roof from 5 degree below horizontal which is where the road is. ) I liked to imagine and kid around with friends that it might be a vertical hanger for flying saucers. LOL But who know, you just never know. They might build some of these things right under our noses.

Anyway, hope you enjoyed my UFO cheat chat.
Back to Bessler I go :)

By the way, if you guys find any interesting photos of flying saucers let me know. I've been to UFO Digest.com, and other web sites and I like their archives, but in case you spot something new please let me know. (real stuff not blinking lights or dots in the sky)

[edited later]
oh wait, I forgot to tell you guys the most exciting sighting I've seen not to long ago before I left San Diego. I was driving out to Las Vegas up the I-15 and I estimate I was around the border between California and Nevada, a bit before I think since I did not get to Prim Nevada yet (which is right on the border) Its desolate country out there and it was just getting dark, on a Thursday evening (I was heading to Las Vegas for the weekend since that Friday was my Friday off) Not to many people driving on to Las Vegas at the time so I was kind of like the only car on the road at the time. Suddenly something flashed off to the left (driver side window) and I turned my head and looked. Wow, a flame with green, orange, red, blue tints to it appeared from behind the hills by the side of the road (200 yards away maybe) and it lifted up and fizzled out to a completely dark object that still seemed to block stars as it went up. (there was barely light enough on the horizon to make out the hills) The object was probably the size of a nikel held at arms length. This sighting was very short, less then two seconds, it was like: flash .... I turn my head ... I notice a gradual lifting of this mass of "flames" .... and then see it fizzle out ... and then notice a few stars blink off and back on in a line. I scanned the night sky but I couldn't see anything more. It could of been a flare no doubt, but something told me it wasn't. Maybe its gentle rise, maybe the few stars that blinked on and off in a trajectory as if some object was rising and blocking the star light. I don't know, but very interesting.

[jtolan]

Ken forgive me for taking apart your posting, but I want to illustrate subtle assumptions which people make.

From years of studying the UFO phenomenon, it is obvious that about 90+% of the reported sightings are either natural or conventional phenomena, hoaxes, or hallucinations.

I agree!!

However, the remainder are, in my opinion, the REAL thing...actual extraterrestrial space / aircraft

Ok lets hold it right here.

How do we know the things in the sky are "extraterrestrial"? Have we seen them take off from some other planet? Have we seen them manufactured on some other planet? Just because something is not like a plane with wings doesn't mean its extraterestrial. This is common logic people.

...operating in our planet's atmosphere ...

I wonder who operates the most (if not all) of the vehicles in our planets atmosphere? Hum? Its HUMANS that's who !!! Some weird vehicle seen in our atmosphere has probably a billion to one chance it is HUMAN (if not more) The average person just doesn't know what science is capable of and specifically the military/industrial complex. There is a slew of surveillance aircraft, unpiloted drones, ballons, etc. that look quite out of the ordinary.

...and piloted, in most cases, by extraterrestrial beings.

really? This is where I start to lose interest in UFOlogy, when people start talking about abductions and little green man. Let me say something about Roswell if I may. We have something that crashes and the military goes in and cordons off the area. Why? You see the people that retrieve a wreck reveal who most likely owns it. If it was truly an alien craft they would no doubt have other ships around and they would go down and retrieve their comrades bodies/wrecked vehicle to perhaps learn what went wrong, so the systems can be improved. But no, the military goes in and cordons off the area. That's our clue right there. It's military hardware!!! Stuff about little green men is military propaganda and science fiction, so let's not lose grip on reality. I enjoy alien movies and science fiction but I know it for what it is.

I have always tried to focus on what methods our "visitors" might employ to be able to journey across the immense gulfs of interstellar space to safely arrive in our skies.

Another assumption, we haven't seen them travel through the "immense gulfs of interstellar space" have we?

By the way, I wonder too, not about the aliens, about what secrets the US holds as far as propulsion and why they don't share with the commercial world.

Could it be that this technology is extraordinary and can allow them to travel to the Moon and Mars, etc.? Its so possible. Its the only explanation of why its guarded so well, it's extraordinary. They wouldn't want every drunk nutcase out there flying around. Its about control and dominance. Science is power. The US has won the "war of the labs" with the atomic bomb and I bet they're winning silently even now.

I believe they have solved the problem of rendering ordinarily massive objects completely MASSLESS.

You are not far from the truth Ken, except "they" is really "us". Take a look at the glowing saucer picture, do you know what that is? Do you know why I'm interested in that picture and why I belive it's genuine?

That's the secret for "affecting" inertia. ACCELERATING ELECTROSTATIC CHARGE!!! But more then that, its a mode of propulsion. You ionize air above and it gets pulled down on you and in turn the saucer is pulled up. No propellers needed, silent propulsion.

I did some calculations once and with a ten foot diameter half sphere you can generate a lift of THOUSANDS OF POUNDS, with about a million volts potential, which is no problem in generating really, shoving your feet about a carpet can build that much in no time.

How to operate in space you ask? In space all you do is eject or vent some gas like nitrogen (or xenon gas) around the ionizing "tip" of the saucer. It gets ionized and attracted and pulled down by the shell of the saucer while it pulls the saucer up. Its really nothing more then an ionic engine but a way more efficient one since you have this attraction phenomena going on as well.

By the way, that 'spike' on top of the saucers is the key. Whenever you see a little 'spike' at the top of a saucer you know its probably not faked. That's why no matter how weird Billy Meier's stories are, I belive his photos might be real and not faked. I see 'spikes' at the top of his saucers, that's why I say that. I think "they" chose him to discredit and bring reproach on the field of UFOlogy. Notice that he dealt with arian nation people acting as 'aliens' so never mind the stories they tell of coming from tim-buck-too or some far away galaxy. That's crap. But the pictures might very well be real. In todays world we need to read between the lines as never before.

[Disclaimer, for whoever might belive I'm revealing Government secrets I was entrusted with, its not the case. I've arrived at the above conclusions on my own so I feel at liberty to discuss my personal scientific convictions.]

In this state, their craft are able to engage in a kind of gravity free, inertialess flight that accounts for the amazing aerodynamic performances they display in the lower levels of our atmosphere.

read what I told Jonathan about that. Its not so amazing, but I agree a massless object can be made to do interesting things.

Guys, I sincerely hope nobody is so attached to this idea of aliens. Look what happened to those people in San Diego who killed themselves (Heavens Gate ?), that UFO believer group. How sad. Ignoring the plain word of God as revealed in the Bible, will lead you to belive fables and nonsense. Yes there are "aliens" out there but they are humans like us who have not fallen in sin. After Adam and Eve fell, the Devil became the ruler of this world then at the cross, Jesus claimed the world back. We are actually a spectacle to the whole Universe, a quarantined planet in the process of rehabilitation. Everybody in the universe is watching right now. How is this great controversy playing out? Who's making what choices. We are at the center of attention of the whole UNIVERSE!!!
So no, they don't need to come here in metallic cans and fall and crash. How pathetic.

[ovyyus]

Why is every religious fanatic afflicted with the same razor-thin point of view? Christian fundamentalism appears just as myopic as any other self obsessed cult - certainly at least as feverish and parochial.

[Techstuf]

Says the pot to the kettle.......


Assuming your question is rhetorical......one might, in kind, recommend you go talk to prophet 'yahweh',


Or maybe one of his handlers.....


I'm sure one or the other could muster up an answer to compromise with your own shallow and appallingly jaundiced perceptions......typical and understandably instigated, though they may have been.

[ovyyus]

Now, now, Mitch, just because I don't believe in your god or your devil or your prophecies, doesn't make me a bad guy. Perhaps in your frantic mind there is only black and white, and everyone else is deluded.... that's what I'm talking about. Your fanaticism makes you weak - and you pray that it is a grace from your god. How many times will you get it wrong and go back for more - is it a test, will you pass - gotta give you credit at least for blind determination.

[Techstuf]

It matters less that you believe in our Creator, than that He believes in you....


And my pointing out that you, yourself are quite religious, belong to a sect.....and are prone to closed mindedness, is not meant to intone that you are a 'bad guy'.....


However it is telling that you constantly assert such perception, genuine or not.


Blanket judgements are so much more comfortable.......in the short term.


Though they are getting more expensive these days.......as with just about everything.


Peace,

TS

[Jonathan]

>I want to illustrate subtle assumptions which people make.<
Me too (BTW, don't take any of this offensively).

>Could it be that this technology is extraordinary and can allow them to travel to the Moon and Mars, etc.? Its so possible.<
I gotta hear this proof.

>That's the secret for "affecting" inertia. ACCELERATING ELECTROSTATIC CHARGE!!!<
And this one.

>I did some calculations once and with a ten foot diameter half sphere you can generate a lift of THOUSANDS OF POUNDS, with about a million volts potential, which is no problem in generating really, shoving your feet about a carpet can build that much in no time.<
How much current? Once you reach the ionization potential, more voltage doesn't do much, only more current at that point will increase the ionic wind. My guess is that the current is huge, so that the energy needed just to hover a skimpy craft is huge too, and that explains why this effect simply isn't used. (Despite it's availability to all aerospace companies, not just gov't. Even JLN can make it work.) Ionic drives are efficient only as long as they are weak, and you have few other options. Hence I'm only aware of its use in Deep Space 1.

>Whenever you see a little 'spike' at the top of a saucer you know its probably not faked.<
If real ones have ionic drives, then they probably have spikes. But not vice versa, a pin through a pie plate does not an ion driven spacecraft make.

>Its not so amazing,<
If your explaination for the maneuvers were correct, then sometimes you'd see an aircraft that looks normal do amazing things. There's no good reason why the illusion would be restricted only to the ufos, so it is more likely to be a property of them than an illusion. (That is, of course, if it's considered to be a ufo for a reason in addition to any strange movement. If it were classified as a ufo because of strange movement alone, then normal craft skewed by illusions could be called ufos.)

>but I agree a massless object can be made to do interesting things.<
Where did you find a massless object?

>We are actually a spectacle to the whole Universe, a quarantined planet in the process of rehabilitation. Everybody in the universe is watching right now. ... We are at the center of attention of the whole UNIVERSE!!!<
Do you have proof of this either? I think I can speak for Bill in saying that the last sentence there was the center of his attention when writing his response.

[ovyyus]

It matters less that you believe in our Creator, than that He believes in you....

... and there it is - thank you Mitch for illustrating the point perfectly. While you continue to believe that your god is also mine, you will remain self-justified in your attempts to force your fanaticism onto me and everyone else. Cults become dangerous when their initiates feel obliged to speak and act on another's behalf. The ultimate cult solution, "kill them all - god knows his own".

[Techstuf]

It is your reaction to the perfectly justified exposition of my beliefs....which tells the greater story.

That you claim to feel 'forced' or coerced in some way....says much.

Specifically, which of my Master's teachings do you find so repugnant....so heinous?

It would not surprise me to learn of the possibility that you have not studied them at all.....preferring instead, perhaps, to continue onward....judging by lowest common denominator and spoon fed propaganda.

For, it seems, if you had read the teachings of Christ.....you would certainly know His stand on the phrase:


"kill them all - god knows his own".


The deeper part of you....Bill, will unavoidably continue to realize until that day has come....the logical assertion and inherent proof that life was created by implementation of intelligent design.


And I pray you are not among these ones on that day:


Revelation 6:15

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


And He's coming to deal with the ones of which you speak.....though not for His children whom you lump in among them.


Bessler forbid.....that such ones as YOU speak of, organize a ministry of science that comes in here to judge us all by you.....


As you do now hypocritically to others.


God help the one who trust's their 'immature' child's bottom in your bathwater!


And just because the worldwide body of 'organized' religion, along with politcal and economic bodies as well.......historically end up in the hands of a few who use them to commit the most heinous of acts and then gets gullible and shallow thinking ones to be jaded to the point of exercising a perverse kind of broad and extreme prejudice.....


Doesn't mean He's not coming back,


To claim His own.


The physical world is, in itself, immature.....and ripe for many a manipulative effort in order that one might be schooled to see darkness as light, and light as darkness.


You would do well to approach God in secret sincerity......not letting up until the false prophet from Nevada shows up in a UFO.......or until Christ reveals Himself to you.

I suspect that you have seen several signs already....in answer to your largely, at this point, subconscious queries of our Father.

That you are made uneasy in the knowledge that you may have bitten off more than you feel you can mentally masticate.....


For once our Father begins a work in a man, He sees it to the finish.


May His hand be gentle upon your shoulder.


Blessings in Yahshua, Jesus Christ

[ovyyus]

Sorry to upset you there Mitch - you seem so unprepared to accept that I acknowledge that your god might indeed be the whole universe to you, but to me it is just the centre about which the babblings of a medieval superstitious and fearful mind revolves. Your god will just have to learn to get by without me, if that's OK with you :)

[Techstuf]

It's just OK with me.....you give me no cause for upset.


I have accepted, and continue to accept your reiterative 'acknowledgements' of such.


I am content with what has been demonstrated here.....


Medieval, superstitious, fearful.....and reflective.


After all, you are only calling it how you see it.


No harm, no foul.



Peace,

TS


John 14:6

[Silver Eyes]

>Revelation 6:15

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The moon turns blood red

Third of the stars fall from the sky

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Superstition from old knowledge that meteors sometimes crash to the earth, sometimes taking eons for major ones that cause world cataclysm.

[Techstuf]

Revelation 8:7-11