Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Fletcher,

then build it, and the answer will come to you with a model in front of you, because you can focus on the problem and not driving the rest of it in your head a the same time, if that's all there is left to do, then you need it in front of you to quickly try different options.

[Fletcher]

That's why I have a sim program Trevor.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Fletcher,

That's why I have a big pile of junk, bike bits, and A frames, and a drawing board, well at least you can do yours in the warm. I am not sure the program could reproduce some of my experiments though, I must get one and try it, what program would you recommend?

[Fletcher]

I use Working Model 2 Dimension (WM2D).

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Thanks Fletcher,

it is about time I moved with the time's, it should stop the need for drawing which I always put off because it take too long, my web site is well over due a make over and up date, it is in need of Drawings, so the program should pay for it self in no time.

Edit, what am I like, I will not need drawings when I can post sim's, things are getting better already.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Fletcher,

I have apologized for my miss understanding of your device, although it was not entirely my fault, when it should have been called a gravity device from the start. I explained at the start of this thread the best way to use the RBGS, and you have shown me nothing here to change my mind.

Another way to use the RBGS is to put multi levers on the planetary gears B (16 on each), I have just reread my notes on my device and I get 4 lever fall per one rotation of the main frame. In my uses for the RBGS I only use a counter weights on the outer gears, equal to the negative shift of the center of gravity or the negative backing force of the drop in height on the opposite side against rotation (ascending side).

The reason I get 4 falls per lever is because the planetary gear rotates twice per one rotation of the main frame (when using equal size gears), this tells me you will have problems with your counter weight on your half a balance system, and your maths was wrong.

You will see this problem when your weight engages the rim and comes off the RBGS, even more so when the geared weight is at 6 and needs to be lifted again, so I do not see your device working as predicted. I will not go on because I think I have gave you enough to think about for the moment. I think this sort of design needs a hands on approach to find out if it can be applied to a OoB wheel, it works great for what I want the RBGS to do, it is a good tool for balancing shifts in the center of gravity and using as a balancing system as a whole.

PS, I think you have jumped out of the frying Pan (height for width) and into the fire (laws of levers), but that's not a bad thing because there are more loop holes in the later.

Edit, + against.

[daxwc]

The RBGS is a friction hungry and binding unit. Obviously the binding is a component of how it works but I haven’t been able to find a good ratio on the RBGS to bring the friction and leverage down.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Daxwc,

yes they are high in friction, and need to be good quality gear with the correct tooth angles for the job, something most of us here cannot afford just to do our experiments. I do recommend using bike oil on the gears, this does help the teeth slip, the teeth interaction is the points of high friction, even if the gears are nylon gears light oil will help, another tip is make sure the cogs are not to close to each other so take a good look at how the teeth are entering and leaving each other.

I may have told you before, I always work on loses of 20% to allow for friction (system) losses.