5:3 Preponderance and the ancient problem of Perpetual Motion

[Oystein]

As I have elaborated on before, I find that anomalies in Bessler's work points to 3 & 5, "35" or "53". And the sum of 3 and 5 is 8.

I claim that this actually is an old code existing since the morning of printing, but why would that at the same time be important to Bessler and his Perpetual Motion machine?

For me it looks like his principle of perpetual Motion happened to fit the same numbers as the ancient geometric secret figure of "God". the nature philosophers secret figure... (let's not elaborate on that).

in Bessler's time both the Rabbi and the Jesuit priest was searching for perpetual Motion while trading secrets about secret geometry, kabbalah and Gematria with Bessler. I think he found that the ancient ultimate formula that was the "Godlike" secret of the philosophers, mathematicians, doctors, poets, artists, Rosicrucians and later Freemasons happened to describe his Perpetual motion principle too. All the way from "the Circle with a dot" (A wheel) that was the Pythagorean symbol for God/One. The basic numbers 5:3 and all the way to the appearance of a mechanism..

On 5 & 3 in the Perpetual motion subject:

When analyzing the ancient basic perpetual motion ideas or principles the ratio 5 and 3 soon appears, and it actually seems to be "the basic problem of Perpetual Motion"

Then...if we identify the basic problem, we should also be able to see the basic solution to that said problem...

[Oystein]

So does this actually disprove Perpetual Motion? Or does it only expose the problem?

Bessler used the word "preponderance" to describe what caused the "over-balance" in his wheels.

Preponderance is often used to describe to be of greater quantity or in number, it could also be synonymous to over-weight.

Bessler also said that it wasn't the traditional methods of weights going in/out that was the principle. This can be seen in the 4 "wheels" in the first post, where such are used to describe the problem, and not the solution..

Does Bessler (in MT) secretly point us to "Preponderance" ?

The three MT Wheels 10, 14 and 113 has "by accident" erroneously and by will, a disguised preponderance where one less weight is going up than down. One weight is actually missing from these designs, and that is one ascending weight. Thus these "wheels" have "one weight" static overbalance!

Then let's compare this overbalance to the observed effect of Besslers demonstrations. In the next post..

[Oystein]

So let's compare this "one weight overbalance" from the three MT drawings to how Bessler's wheels actually performed.

Observers estimated the lead weights to be about 4 pounds each. If the principle is based one weight overbalance we could place one 4 pound weight at the rim, to play with the numbers..

By drawing and calculating the observed lifted weight compared to the wheels diameter and the axle diameter, it seems like a four pound weight as estimated by observers would about outbalance a case of bricks as observed.

NB! Rough estimates

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Oystein,

so we have divide 72/4 and get the 2 radii
It is the factor 18.

When you have the Wheel with the Diameter 3,40 m, your 1 radius will be 1,70 m and the axle radius with some rounding 10 cm.

But then it is balanced, and we Need an over or underbalance to get a move.

As I can see you have it here in an hold Position, any other degree of the red weight in the Wheel will cause a move, because the weight is then supported from the axle.

In the vertical Position of the red weight the Counter weight is Zero.

And to add, it is an eccentric weight. You will get an pulsating against and with gravity.

[Oystein]

So, if the basic problem of Perpetual Motion can in the simplest form and the simplest traditional "machines" or "problems" be described by 5/3.
The problem is that in a traditional PM-wheel of 8 weights; when 3 higher leverage weights fall, 5 weights of lower leverage will have to rise, thus creating a total equilibrium. This is THE PROBLEM.

But what is the solution then?

THE SOLUTION is to mirror or reverse the said PROBLEM.

A solution could be; when 5 weights of high leverage fall, 3 weights of high (or smaller) leverage must rise! Taking Bessler's words into account, this must be done without any stationary object or object hanging from the axle interfere with the weights or the wheels motion.

If we place 8 arms, and REMOVE one weight from the ascending side and move it over to the descending side, we have a 3:5 ratio by preponderance. Such a basic (still theoretical) config also account for the imbalance/force seen in Bessler's wheels.

In MT 17 (1+7 = 8) An 8 divided wheel-config we find this 3:5 Ratio. 5 weights on the descending side and 3 weights on the ascending side. but there is a "problem". MT 17 will not locate it's weights as seen. But "an acute mind will know what to do with it.."

Best
ØR

[Fletcher]

I am enjoying this thread Oystein. As you know I don't believe there are any coincidences where Bessler is concerned.

I don't want to disturb your flow in any way. But perhaps popping in here with some perspective and context (as I see it) for the readers might be beneficial.

It pays to remember whom the intended audience was to be for MT. This can't be known with surety but MT was likely going to be a teaching aid for his school of wisdom, to an audience of apprentices. They would not all be educated in math and geometry etc to the same degree, if at all, so simple visual examples (still needing an acute mind to spot them) would overcome educational shortcomings. At least to grasp concepts such as you are discussing.

Bessler could and did write about preponderance, excess impetus, excess weight, and Karl innate momentum, to describe B's. wheels motive force (aka the PM principle). Bessler could also have, rather than write volumes, build picture stories (in MT) to tell his tale, with the help of some specific annotations ? It seems likely to me that he would at least try in MT to both convey his journey to a 'working' PM wheel, and his true PM principle from sustained overbalance. The vis viva.

Also remembering from where Oystein is coming from on this. That Bessler was versed in many Masonic secrets and Euclid's geometry etc. And he would therefore likely know the story of Plato's Socrates and Meno, and Meno's Paradox for example ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meno

Meno's paradox:

Meno asks Socrates: "And how will you inquire into a thing when you are wholly ignorant of what it is? Even if you happen to bump right into it, how will you know it is the thing you didn't know?" Socrates rephrases the question, which has come to be the canonical statement of the paradox: "[A] man cannot search either for what he knows or for what he does not know. He cannot search for what he knows--since he knows it, there is no need to search--nor for what he does not know, for he does not know what to look for."

Is this not what we are faced with ?

From Socrates Dialogue with Meno's slave we can see a famous and simple form of conveying knowledge and understanding thru picture building. You can read about the exact circumstances in the link above. Basically an uneducated slave is asked if he can determine how to double the area of a square (or halve it). The slave takes a few guesses, which are wrong. Socrates draws a square in the dirt and a diagonal bisecting it and asks him to verify that the square is now two equal triangles (1/2 area). The slave agrees that they are two equal triangles. Socrates says you don't need schooling to inherently see that (me paraphrasing). Then he uses the diagonal line as one side of a new square which is twice the area of the first. The slave sees it immediately as the method for doubling or halving squares. Pic example I just whipped up below.

.. Anyways Bessler would likely have known this famous story. Did he attempt to also convey a simple visual story of the PM equilibrium of forces problem and the solution of preponderance as Oystein suggests and lays out for us ? Good money says he did, imo.

[Oystein]

Yes, Fletcher. Many of the MT's contains The doubling/halving of the square and the circle. It can be seen that Bessler makes simple tasks of missing stuff, so the student would end up with Plato's "Meno". This is figures carved in stone many thousand of years ago, so it would me impossible for Bessler as a math student not to know this. It can also be found as basic RC emblems and figures!

I can post if anybody like.

[Oystein]

It pays to remember whom the intended audience was to be for MT. This can't be known with surety but MT was likely going to be a teaching aid for his school of wisdom, to an audience of apprentices. They would not all be educated in math and geometry etc to the same degree, if at all, so simple visual examples (still needing an acute mind to spot them) would overcome educational shortcomings. At least to grasp concepts such as you are discussing.

Also remembering from where Oystein is coming from on this. That Bessler was versed in many Masonic secrets and Euclid's geometry etc. And he would therefore likely know the story of Plato's Socrates and Meno, and Meno's Paradox for example ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meno

Meno's paradox:

Meno asks Socrates: "And how will you inquire into a thing when you are wholly ignorant of what it is? Even if you happen to bump right into it, how will you know it is the thing you didn't know?" Socrates rephrases the question, which has come to be the canonical statement of the paradox: "[A] man cannot search either for what he knows or for what he does not know. He cannot search for what he knows--since he knows it, there is no need to search--nor for what he does not know, for he does not know what to look for."

Is this not what we are faced with ?

From Socrates Dialogue with Meno's slave we can see a famous and simple form of conveying knowledge and understanding thru picture building. You can read about the exact circumstances in the link above. Basically an uneducated slave is asked if he can determine how to double the area of a square (or halve it). The slave takes a few guesses, which are wrong. Socrates draws a square in the dirt and a diagonal bisecting it and asks him to verify that the square is now two equal triangles (1/2 area). The slave agrees that they are two equal triangles. Socrates says you don't need schooling to inherently see that (me paraphrasing). Then he uses the diagonal line as one side of a new square which is twice the area of the first. The slave sees it immediately as the method for doubling or halving squares. Pic example I just whipped up below.

.. Anyways Bessler would likely have known this famous story. Did he attempt to also convey a simple visual story of the PM equilibrium of forces problem and the solution of preponderance as Oystein suggests and lays out for us ? Good money says he did, imo.

Yes Fletcher I agree with you. But as you know the most prominent or should I say the few of the forums "elders" have already ridiculed me for this, but I know what I am doing, and you are starting to catch up I can see. We have to know what Bessler would have known, if we should try to "get into his mind". Bessler would know Euclid's elements very well. No other book would be above, if you are a multi-talentet craftsman and mathematician in search for these things. If you know your "Euclid Elements" you will soon see that Bessler did too.

There are many examples of Plato's Meno, but there are also further hints to why it was used and other ways to apply it.

But lets look at a simple example of how simple places it can start, and it seems like Bessler use it as a basic hint, to start working your "masonry" further into the drawing itself. To prove a thing or two. As he would write in the MT comments... there is more to the mere drawing than it seems.. (yes.. invisible lines/figures.)

Looking at MT 45, the number-plate seems a little peculiar..
The 5 lacks a real tail... Let's fill it in then...

[Oystein]

Actually we can now see that this "masonry" mostly is about X's !

Plato's Meno is actually just:
XX
XX

So likely, Bessler's mechanisms are made of crosses too.. But not only crosses of course..

[John Collins]

That is most impressive Øystein! I want to know more.

JC

[Oystein]

An acute mind would also then soon see that Bessler think it's also about doubling the doubling. Or halving of the half area..

Then finally my 5 and 3 appears!!

Now we see both 43 and 45

43 + 45 = 88

Like I showed that O+R+F+F+Y+R+E = 88

And Gott (God) written as 50tt = 88 (50+19+19)

From this knowledge, that I was ridiculed for, by accepting what you just saw, we can find the ancient secret, what RC was about. (And hopefully I found his PM secret too).

[Oystein]

It seems like Rosy Cross say that by applying and understandig these methods we can find Jesus Chris..and possibly God..

We can also see that this is about doubling and having of the circle area. Very well explained in MT. The picture below uses not just a square but also a compass to draw a circle. The figure is then also able to double or half the area of the circle.

But what does this have to do with finding Christ? (you can see Christ in the RC's center of the area doubling/halving figure below..

[Oystein]

So if Jesus Christ equals to a value 5:3 by ancient Gematria, then a secret sign that turns out to be both 5 and 3 could be a metaphor for or have equal meaning to Jesus Christ or be a sign that say: "The truth about Jesus Christ"

So if this MT 45, is about Plato's Meno and the Pythagorean truth about Jesus Christ being equal to 5:3 (ia Pythagorean triangle) maybe we can find Jesus in the middle of the main axle then?

A strange figur looking like 5 and 3 only mirrored! Just where Jesus should be..

Attached is an example, how he could have planned for us to continue into the drawing..and find "Jesus Christ" (5:3).

But the number plate was adding up to 88, and I have claimed that "88" is the number of "50tt". The drawing should also lead us to the figure of the Pythagorean God"

Good luck :-)

[Oystein]

Finally I added another even simpler way to both double the square and circle.

Now I have said way too much for some people...

Best
ØR

[justsomeone]

Oystein, some here enjoy your comments and work. Post away!