Gravity Wheel

[Fletcher]

Ok .. for those with WM2D kinetic simulators here is a simple pendulum experiment. There are 3 comparisons side by side. Each wheel has 4 pendulums hanging by strings. The left one no interconnections. The middle one connected by blue strings. The right one connected by red rigid rods.

What I attempted to do is remove Mr Hand from the equation. To do that I have placed a torque force on each wheel turning CW of 15 units. Not to much push start and not to slow to get up to speed in a reasonable amount of time. I've limited the torque force to cease at 12 RPM with an IF statement formula.

That means once the wheel gets to 12 RPM the torque cuts out. But it kicks in again briefly each time the wheel falls below 12 RPM to boost it again up to 12 RPM (arbitrary RPM) when it cuts out again etc.

On the left one that is not interconnected I have activated the velocity vector so that you can see at a glance the magnitude and direction of the velocity as the pendulums circulate. From this visual you can see the direction the inertia is acting (not the acceleration which isn't activated). Or you could just look at the pendulum string to see which way it is leaning at any point in rotation to get an idea of what's happening.

Obviously this is a different result from what Calloway is describing. I suggest we put on our thinking caps to come up with a plausible explanation why there would be different results in the sim (with its constraint parameters detailed) v's Calloway's real world experiments ? That may be why there are different results in the real world.

P.S. I include the string and rod connected experiments for interest sake as a comparison to free hanging pendulums.

[ovyyus]

I suggest we put on our thinking caps to come up with a plausible explanation why there would be different results in the sim (with its constraint parameters detailed) v's Calloway's real world experiments ?

One plausible explanation is that Calloway is wrong. Talking rather than showing seems like a repeating theme here. Perhaps the real problem is understanding his agenda.

[WaltzCee]

I blame it on Mr. Hand. Mr. Hand can be quite mischievous.

Oh no Mr. Bill!!

[Calloway]

Ovyyus,


<Perhaps the real problem is understanding his agenda.>

No agenda. Just the truth.


<Talking rather than showing seems like a repeating theme here.>

Mr.Ovyyus, I think you are correct! I will shut my mouth.

[silent]

.

[ovyyus]

Could the bar be any lower?

[silent]

I'll take it as low as I have to. :) I enjoy building no matter how wrong I am because I'm learning a lot on my own!

I want Calloway to keep sharing...whether he succeeds or fails - so I can learn through him. I'm not going to stand idly by without standing up for him.

So far as I know, nobody has ever come up with this idea and actually tried it. Good for him. Anyone who claims to be an expert, but doesn't actually build and test is nothing short of a poser.

No wheel - no expert!

Silent

[WaltzCee]

What a low pile of manipulative tripe.

and the chickens said, "4 feet good, 2 feet bad."

Anyone who claims to be an expert, but doesn't actually build and test is nothing short of a poser.

I've never heard anybody claim to be an expert. Who you talkin about, yourself? Are you building Callaway's wheel, or are you a poser?

[ovyyus]

I'll take it as low as I have to.

Soon you might need a shovel. At least you'll have company.

I've never heard anybody claim to be an expert.

Some solutions need a creative problem.

[Fletcher]

silent .. where are the builders who can knock up a simple test rig to compare to what dradford shows in his animation and report back in ?

They aren't doing so for a reason. Perhaps it is that it is not as simple as it first seems. For example, there are 4 possible states for the background wheel.

1. Accelerating
2. Constant RPM
3. Decelerating
4. Hunting (all 3 states as inertia has its affect).

Maybe its not clear what state the wheel is in when the pendulum is observed swinging inwards on the ascending side ? What would normally be considered by most experimenters (real and virtual world) as an anomalous result. If the original data and experimental procedure is good it should be able to be repeated and replicated by others to confirm. So that the conditions for such a result show that it was not anomalous at all, and Calloway was dead on.

Below is another sim of my 4 hanging pendulms test rig. This time I pinned the pendulums to a virtually massless background wheel for a full rotation. And I set it up so that the stop latches release the pends when they have done their first 360 degrees rotation. I ditched the torque impetus for a motor set at 12 RPM. So the wheel now stays at a constant 12 RPM. It neither speeds up or slows down when pendulums hanging below move around a bit due inertia. I also increased air friction to a whopping amount to dampen down quickly any errant swinging of the pends. IOW's the thing rotates at a constant 12 RPM and the pends swing in and out in a positionally consistent manner.

Maybe you have to break out the fishing kit and an old backboard if you want to know why Calloway's pends behave differently than expected ;7)

[silent]

Fletcher - do you think they are not reporting in because the thing doesn't work or perhaps it does work and they are going on their merry way enjoying free power? It looks to me like I need to mock this thing up and see what happens. Maybe the swinging of the pendulums is all this thing needs?

I should have time within the week to give it a shot.

silent

[Fletcher]

No, I don't think they're ready to disconnect the utility companies just this minute. I think they need more information.

I'll say upfront that Calloway seems an honest guy just wanting to share his interesting discoveries and good fortune. And I'm pretty sure he didn't claim a 'Working Wheel' or any somesuch. Just a good idea to share that sparked some interest.

However in the past I have seen some disingenuous operators lay bait, and the builders get to spend their money and time doing what they love best - building and experimenting. And reporting back in their results etc, and asking for workarounds etc.

That's why I will sometimes sim basic principles in question before anyone invests their own real money and time (other than my own).

Here's why I decided to make a few quick sims in this thread. Seemed to me to be some miscommunication goinn down ?

Let us know how your experiments turn out.

26 Sept 2019 dradford wrote:

Perhaps Galloway could show us a video of just the pendulums on the wheel, so we can see what they actually do when the wheel is turned?

Calloway Replied:

I wish to say I sincerely respect all opinions! I do not want to come across as offensive. I just offer my advice from years of actual hands on experiences in my shop. Please just take it or leave it as you wish. I still wait for someone to replicate this design. I suppose you must believe it in wholeheartedly to do so. I'm a natural builder so I guess it comes easier for me. Good luck to all! Cheers

dradford wrote:

The pendulum hanging from the central axle wouldn't have any power in it, they have to be suspended from the edge of a turning wheel. Can you draw a diagram showing what you mean?

Calloway replied:

Dradford, Excuse me for a minute while I take some of these fellows to school. Crazy Dave's video is showing how many rotations the pendulum turns the wheel. The pendulum is driving the wheel. What I've been saying is quite the opposite. The wheel is pulling the pendulums. Take a 10" string and tie a weight to it. Hold the string with the weight hanging in front of you and move your hand suddenly to the left. What happened? Your hand with the string moved ahead of the weight. The weight LAGS behind. If you just keeping moving to the left, it still lags. This is what happens on the wheel. The pendulum weight lags because it is being pulled by the wheel. But only on the left side in a cw rotation. This happens at about 7 to 11. At about 12 to 6 the pendulums are smoothly thrown out at a 40 to 50 rpm. So at roughly 12 and 6 a switch has happened. Pulling to being thrown out. There is no perpetual motion here that will power a wheel as they seen in my prior explanation. The 2 simply cancel. One could say the left side of the wheel is pulling while the right side is coasting. But I certainly don't want to confuse the issue here. I'm not here to state something that I think is true. I'm here to explain with hands on experience that it is true. Everything I have explained will be shown to be true eventually. Again take it or leave it. As for me showing a wheel with pendulums, I'm not dissembling my wheel just to show that. Cheers

[agor95]

The pendulum hanging from the central axle wouldn't have any power in it, they have to be suspended from the edge of a turning wheel. Can you draw a diagram showing what you mean?

The link https://steampunks.ddns.net/

This is a simple animation on the link and a image below.

I am using rods as the maths is less complex. I like your point on the rope not transferring an impact to the bolts.

As you see there are 4 pendulum around the rim on each side of the wheel.

It's like your presentation doubled and stuck back to back with a 45 degree rotation difference between the two versions.

Cheers

[agor95]

I'll say upfront that Calloway seems an honest guy just wanting to share his interesting discoveries and good fortune. And I'm pretty sure he didn't claim a 'Working Wheel' or any somesuch. Just a good idea to share that sparked some interest.

I also find Calloway honest and level headed.

I believe the forum needs time to develop momentum.

There will be a need to address members natural caution.

Most of that caution has been developed from historic forum & personal events and not a result of this current topic.

I for one are cautious of simulating rope and pendulums attached to a moving base.

P.S. sometime you have to face down your cautious nature.

[dradford]

I've played with Algodoo for an hour or so, and come up with a wheel with eight pendulums on it - but I don't think Algodoo's simulation of pendulum movement is remotely realistic - they fly up far too high when I apply a light force to turn the wheel, and these are weights that are supposed to be 10kg, on a one metre long chain. Is anybody familiar with Algodoo, and do they know how to adjust the settings to make pendulums move more realistically?