Gravity Wheel

[agor95]

Hi dradford

Pendulums are tricky b~@gers.

Hopefully we have some members with Algodoo skills.

Another tricky issue is knowing what a realistic movement is so we don't filter it out.

Cheers

[Calloway]

Good morning agor95, The misunderstanding was in powering the wheel instead of the pendulums turning the wheel. Im not trying to push this design off on anybody to get them to build it. I'm a builder and once I imagined this design, I wanted to build it and then share the idea. I have built so many wheel designs that I can't remember them all. But this one impressed me in my on mind. So here we are. I'm a retired (old)65 year old with alot of miles. My back ground was a troubleshooter in electrical over hydraulic repair. I have no interest in being untruthful with anyone. I just tell what I think and see and with hands on mostly. I just figured there may be a few builders here that may want to try this design.

If interested, you can go to a plexiglass seller and mine cut the wheel and drilled the center hole for around 150.00. I got the rest of my parts and weights from Amazon.
Cheers

[agor95]

Good Day Calloway

I wish there were more people out there that would follow your lead and
post in the way you have done.

I understand the pendulum drag effect and will see if I can capture it in a simulation.

I think you would like for others to appreciate the effects you have seen.
Lets allow them to build at there own risk and get some enjoyment in the process.

There is a need to help builders as many have tried pendulum on disks.
However the extra interaction with a sliding weight helps with the perceived
pendulum synchronization problem.

Also the sliding weights supplies the bias required.

Note Honesty is the best policy; We all have to live with ourselves first.

My interest at this time is to increase adoption of good ideas with simulations.

They can be distributed along with the maths to far more people.

These days any video or build can be written off.
There needs to be more examples in sims, maths and builds

Cheers

[Georg Künstler]

this picture I found in our technic museum in Speyer today.

Calloway's wheel is hard to trigger, I see a big chance, when he will get the right timing of the cyclical shift of the sliders.

The window for an operations is small, he overlays 2 amplitudes during the swinging. It fits to the physic rules for an mechanical amplifier in a circle process.

I will make the following suggestion because I am not able to replicate this design, there are to many unknown parameters for me.
Weight, length of the pendulums, friction of the sliders, diameter of the carrier wheel etc.
So the best replicator can only be Calloway, I will spend the money for the replication. I don't know the location where Calloway is living. So he can send the replication to the next Besslerwheel forum member, or anyone he can trust.

[ME]

a simulation

[Fletcher]

Hi ME .. very nice simulation.

It looks like you spent some time optimising the geometry relationships and performance wrt timing of events at a certain rpm etc. The pendulum appears to nudge the slider to the right just as it gets to horizontal after which it would fall of its own accord (providing Cf's aren't too great which would cause a lag in the fall initiation IINM).

Your point earlier in the thread relating to 'the importance of raising weights' and initiating the 'push' of the slider before horizontal didn't fall on deaf ears. So there is possibly scope for performance improvement if the basic feedback concept is sound.

............

A technical question for you. It's about time I learned how to present an animation of a WM kinetic sim on this discussion board. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know how you and MrV for example do it. Bout time I moved on from screen dumps of the sim in action and got into the 21st century.

Can you slowly walk me thru the procedure you use to produce one and post it up here ? Cheers.

[justsomeone]

ME, in your sim, there is always more weight on the left side of the wheel than the right side. Certainly a non runner.

[ME]

Hi ME .. very nice simulation.
It looks like you spent some time optimising the geometry relationships and performance wrt timing of events at a certain rpm etc. The pendulum appears to nudge the slider to the right just as it gets to horizontal after which it would fall of its own accord (providing Cf's aren't too great which would cause a lag in the fall initiation IINM).

Thanks.
Actually it did not need much tweaking. As long as the pendulum can touch the slider at 9-o'clock then it should be good (for now).
When we totally ignore my babbles about "raising weights" and only want to slide horizontally at 9, then the 9-o'clock slider should actually be slightly more inward, when the 10:30 pendulum touches it.

In the animation the rotational speed is much higher than (I think) intended. The pendulum now bumbs the slider instead of gently pushing it. Even when this happens before 9-o'clock the effect is the same, albeit a bit exaggerated now.


A recap for others, without getting too technical:
When we follow the path of the blue sliders then we see that the "average event" happens after 9-o'clock.
As a result the blue sliders have their most leverage pointing/tilting towards the lower-left. (Path image attached to post)
That's the reason why to start the action well before 9-o'clock, but that also implies my babble about things needing to go upwards.


Animation:
Mr Vibrating uses an external screen capture program. The resulting files are relative very big (several Mb's), and thus stored somewhere else and so he needs to put them inline with his posts. He has better animations, but when his external storage goes so does the animations.

I, on the other hand, am still very, very old-school...I try to keep the result below the 500 kb (I make a sport out of it to be around the 200 kb) and still convey the principle.
To create an animation I first calculate how many frames I can skip, while avoiding a regular hiccup as much as possible.
I'm helping myself with a WM2D macro that skips the frames for me and then makes a screenshot. My paint-program (very ancient stuff: windows 98) can handle layers, and is able to produce a Gif animation out of it.
I could explain my exact procedure, but it's a bit elaborate. As the method I use is already part of my behavior it only takes a few sips of whatever I'm drinking.

Not that it always goes well :-) Unfortunately (distracted), the animation I showed had a lousy 18 frames for 90°: As you see 5° degrees per frame makes it a bit too shaky. 18 frames per 45° would have been much better.
Added and attached to post, a newer smoother version: 30 frames per 45°.

A quick search for screencapture-to-gif software brought me to this first option:
https://www.screentogif.com
It's on git-hub, so it's most likely not shady stuff but checked by others.

there is always more weight on the left side of the wheel than the right side. Certainly a non runner

Hmm yes, my simulator told me the same thing.
Also, don't underestimate the effect of the pendulum, even/especially when it's heavy and does not swing as much as depicted.
- I overlayed the paths in one attachment.

I actually thought that pendulum swing was a well established inertial thing.
That's why I tried to show (too early) a possible way to optimize things.
https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/view ... c&start=60

[agor95]

Hi ME

I also agree and appreciate your work.

The process of building a simulation or physical model takes time.

P.S. It should be possible to 'bake' WMD results into a viewer?

Thank you for you support.

[agor95]

Just remember Calloway that a few pages back I warned you about what goes on here on the list. You have to be tough because there are a select few people who totally get off in many different ways leaving cynical comments and basically trolling.

Thanks for being here Calloway.

silent

On a positive note silent;

I knight you, Sir Lancelot of the order of the round wheel.

Your valiant charge at the 'Dragon of Doubt' and cutting down the 'Demons of Jade'
will be song is many a quaffing hall.

Also I am starting to see the 'Toy Page' myself!

The curved hammers are the pendulums and the square hammers are the weights.

I am seeing another version with long pendulums that look and act like weak trebuchets.

P.S. Time for a dark room I think. padded

Cheers

[Calloway]

What would happen if we moved the pendulums to the sliding blocks keeping them paired together by wire? Nothing? I need some sleep...Cheers

[Wubbly]

Here's a version of Marchello's simulation of Calloway's pendulum wheel.

The dialog box allows you to customize some of the parameters of the build.
You can select from 1 to 4 pendulum pairs. (e.g. 2, 4, 6, or 8 pendulums).
You can also input dimensions for radius of the main wheel, height of the sliding rectangle, radius of the pendulum bob, ...

I set high wind resistance to prevent the pendulums from flailing about wildly as mentioned in a previous post.

The initial motor velocity is set at 10 degrees/second.
After you build the model and press run, slowly creep up the input slider for the angular velocity of the wheel until you get it to where you want it. (e.g. somewhere around 80 degrees/second seemed good).

Then turn off the motor (with the motor ON/OFF toggle) to see what happens.

[silent]

Thank You agor. The truth of the matter is that you can apply the toys page in many different ways. Even my thoughts of merging MT13 with MT113 can be shown to emulate the toys page. Bessler certainly hid his design well, however one must focus on the part when he says apply in a different way. I don't think he was daft enough to share the actual mechanism, but something that behaves somewhat similar. With my idea of MT13 and MT113 - I envision that the storks bills and the B mechanism represent the outside of the wheel and the interior mechanism is MT113 where the anvil is getting whacked by the upper weight going up and over the top while the lower/lesser weight is gravitating toward the center.

Application won't be totally known until the mechanism is solved. I really want to build my wheel idea, but I'll stop with that because it goes on a tangent that doesn't belong in this thread.

This pendulum wheel looks interesting although I'm still seeing too much weight on the ascending side. You can't cheat gravity and coast through anything (a fact that I've learned from my previous 2 builds.) The way to keep using gravity to power something is you must always keep ahead of it so that you can build the force. The minute you count on coasting into position to be part of your modus operandi, you will fall victim to diminishing returns and it won't work.

The upper weight must always be maintained so that the rest of the machine's parts receive power and push.

silent

[agor95]

I'll stop with that because it goes on a tangent that doesn't belong in this thread

Best to keep this thread focused on one design. It is easy to create a new thread for others devices.

There is a new model on my helper site 'Calloway Double Pendulum'.

I wanted to look at the dynamics of long pendulums.

I see most members are looking at short practical pendulum versions.

It's time for me too get my head around some maths to do the Calloway GW dynamics.

I am looking at this as a two interacting device system.

The contact of the pendulum with the slider weight appears to be required for the pendulum part.

And the slider part is required too drive the main rotation.
So the sliders weights need too move before 9 o'clock.

Cheers

[eccentrically1]

Dradford, Excuse me for a minute while I take some of these fellows to school. Crazy Dave's video is showing how many rotations the pendulum turns the wheel. The pendulum is driving the wheel. What I've been saying is quite the opposite. The wheel is pulling the pendulums. Take a 10" string and tie a weight to it. Hold the string with the weight hanging in front of you and move your hand suddenly to the left. What happened? Your hand with the string moved ahead of the weight. The weight LAGS behind. If you just keeping moving to the left, it still lags. This is what happens on the wheel. The pendulum weight lags because it is being pulled by the wheel. But only on the left side in a cw rotation. This happens at about 7 to 11. At about 12 to 6 the pendulums are smoothly thrown out at a 40 to 50 rpm. So at roughly 12 and 6 a switch has happened. Pulling to being thrown out. There is no perpetual motion here that will power a wheel as they seen in my prior explanation. The 2 simply cancel. One could say the left side of the wheel is pulling while the right side is coasting. But I certainly don't want to confuse the issue here. I'm not here to state something that I think is true. I'm here to explain with hands on experience that it is true. Everything I have explained will be shown to be true eventually. Again take it or leave it. As for me showing a wheel with pendulums, I'm not dissembling my wheel just to show that. Cheers

That's because you're pulling on the wheel, as in the example with the 10" string.

I'm saying that once you stop pulling on the wheel, the pendulums don't behave that way. They wouldn't lag behind and then bump the sliding weights at the right time.They resume their normal behavior.
thanks for the schooling.