Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

[eccentrically1]

Mrv:

If the motor WERE mounted to the background / world, then both the torque * angle and power * time integrals would show that the target speed of 1 rad/s has a PE cost of ½ J... not 0.3 J..!

This ^^^ is what you don’t seem to understand. Do motors, or pendulums or rotors, levitate in the real world? Sorry, not sorry. There are no reactionless momentum gains.

[justsomeone]

Ok, truth be told, most of this math is over my head. For this, I am not ashamed. When we have a member ( brighter than I for sure ) claiming overunity, I want to hear the views of other members that are also brighter than I. Mr. V., I could care less if you block me. You are so full of yourself and how dare anyone question your math or intellect. ME is the certainly not a troll. He is a great asset to our community and you should welcome his input! Thank you ME and Ecc. for your posts in this thread.

[ovyyus]

ME is the certainly not a troll. He is a great asset to our community and you should welcome his input!

That is certainly true... but it seems some people (and their fan base) don't appreciate critical analysis. They shun critique and resort to name calling, censorship, and bar lowering exercises in order to cope with it. I think the majority of members here are more experienced with this sort of behaviour than these snowflakes realise.

[justsomeone]

Agreed

[silent]

It's because those self-appointed experts love to be critical of other's designs and make demands of them that are so retarded and over the top, YET THEY THEMSELVES HAVE NO WHEEL TO SHOW.

How in the hell can anyone take you seriously - you self-appointed experts - when you have no working wheel?

I've been told that I must indicate after every sentence that it is my opinion. Then I get chastised for putting "only my opinion" the end of my posts, and it seems a certain crowd loves to level off critique but contribute NOTHING and I mean absolutely NOTHING to actual builds. And they aren't nice about it either. To show how arrogant they are, they call it "lowering the bar" when I block them. HA! You have a highly inflated view of yourselves I will say. And I have even encouraged those very individuals to block me because the feeling is mutual. Nothing but jaded old bastards who don't bother to build one damn thing and test it, but are there like a bunch of vultures ready to pick apart any humble attempt someone makes and make them feel like shit. One corner of the mouth is spoken the words, "...they shun critique and resort to name calling..." and then a few words later says, "these snowflakes." LOL!

I've even told my workmates about the situation on the forum and how a certain crowd considers themselves so high and mighty - going around critiquing other's work, and yet have no wheel to show for it. They've all said, "How can someone claim to be so smart when they don't know how to build a Bessler wheel?" My point exactly and one not missed by common folk.

For some reason, ovyyus isn't in my blocked list, but he's coming close. Oh man I hope he blocks me first! The race is on and I'll lower bar and stick my head in the sand and have yet another reason to stay on the forum. LOL!

Just my opinion of course and so go ahead and critique this. The wheel will not be solved by someone who is tied tightly to mathematical formulas, because what the wheel does is a mathematical anomaly. The path there will be full of math, yet the solution will strangely seem to violate the math. That's a puzzle worth chewing on.

silent

[ovyyus]

For some reason, ovyyus isn't in my blocked list, but he's coming close. Oh man I hope he blocks me first!

I've never used the forum feature to block anyone's comments. I want to hear everyone. A censored public forum sounds limited and boring.

The wheel will not be solved by someone who is tied tightly to mathematical formulas, because what the wheel does is a mathematical anomaly.

You know how this mystery won't be solved?

IMO, those who promote censorship and false conclusions probably impede a solution. But who knows, it might take a self-censored, conclusion-prone, whiny-low-bar snowflake to solve it, right? I don't care who it is.

[WaltzCee]

Disclaimer: the following is just my fact-based opinion.

because those self-appointed experts love to be critical of other's designs and make demands of them that are so retarded and over the top, YET THEY THEMSELVES HAVE NO WHEEL TO SHOW.

How in the hell can anyone take you seriously - you self-appointed experts - when you have no working wheel?
You are the only one claiming others are making the claim of being an expert.
Why do you spam that lie?

I've been told that I must indicate after every sentence that it is my opinion. Then I get chastised for putting "only my opinion" the end of my posts, and it seems a certain crowd loves to level off critique but contribute NOTHING and I mean absolutely NOTHING to actual builds. And they aren't nice about it either. To show how arrogant they are, they call it "lowering the bar" when I block them. HA! You have a highly inflated view of yourselves I will say. And I have even encouraged those very individuals to block me because the feeling is mutual. Nothing but jaded old bastards who don't bother to build one damn thing and test it, but are there like a bunch of vultures ready to pick apart any humble attempt someone makes and make them feel like shit. One corner of the mouth is spoken the words, "...they shun critique and resort to name calling..." and then a few words later says, "these snowflakes." LOL!
Your entire post here adds nothing, and I mean nothing, to the discussion at
hand. How do you know what the jaded old bastards are doing, or for that matter that
they're bastards or jaded? Pardon me for saying it but you're coming across a little bit
overbearing. And you wonder why people lambastard you.

I've even told my workmates about the situation on the forum and how a certain crowd considers themselves so high and mighty - going around critiquing other's work, and yet have no wheel to show for it. They've all said, "How can someone claim to be so smart when they don't know how to build a Bessler wheel?" My point exactly and one not missed by common folk.
Do your workmates know that you think of them as being common Folk? Do
you think of them as being common folk because they all parrot the same damn thing? Are
you actually telling us something that happened or are you making this up? It sure do
sound like a fiction.

For some reason, ovyyus isn't in my blocked list, but he's coming close. Oh man I hope he blocks me first! The race is on and I'll lower bar and stick my head in the sand and have yet another reason to stay on the forum. LOL!
Oye vey, you have been warned ovyyus! Don't make him huff and puff and show his stuff.

Just my opinion of course and so go ahead and critique this. The wheel will not be solved by someone who is tied tightly to mathematical formulas, because what the wheel does is a mathematical anomaly. The path there will be full of math, yet the solution will strangely seem to violate the math. That's a puzzle worth chewing on.

silent

Speculation:

This post from our hillbilly redneck from Brentwood added nothing to the present
discussion. And I mean nothing. Spamming the forum with, no wheel no expert.
In fairness, he's probably on the phone with heads of state around the world trying to
describe whirled peas, treks to the barn teaching his swine how to squeal like pigs, etc.

One can only guess how someone who has put his shoulder to this wheel for a little less
than a year coming to the conclusion that, well since I haven't solved the problem I guess I'm
just like everybody else, spends their time.

Conclusion:
I'm seeing a very needy person attempting to dominate this entire discussion board.
Quite possibly itty-bitty penis syndrome.

[John Collins]

This is a forum where people debate, post ideas and argue about other people’s comments. Blocking is a form of censorship. I’ve never blocked anyone. If I don’t like what I read I either move on or post a comment ... or debate it. If what it written offends you personally get a thicker skin, defend yourself or move on.

JC

[silent]

Argh! The attack of the armchair experts is upon me! LOL!

Mr.Vibrating - over the past year I've enjoyed reading your posts because of all the simulations you have run. No matter the people you block and the harsh critique you have to endure, I really appreciate your contributions to the board because with out it, I would have never thought about the mechanisms in the way you did. I've saved some of your animations to my drive as well.

Sorry for this momentary interruption in your thread because some people must always have the last say and certainly only some members are allowed to critque whereas others are not. It should simmer down now that I've utilized the ignore feature once again.

silent

[eccentrically1]

If you ignore enough members, pretty soon you'll just be commenting with yourself and those that agree with you. What does that sound like?

[agor95]

kind of see what you're saying, i think...

..i'm planning on doing a 'no gravity' baseline, to see if the workload on the motor increases to 0.5 J per 1 kg-m² per 1 rad/s (as you'd expect from ½Iw² - it should be a 0.25 J change of KE in each direction); if this is confirmed then it means we're getting free work from gravity.. in the form of a discount in the amount of torque required..

Dunno if i'll get any more done this eve, been zombified all day as it is, need slepp..

I understand it's hard to look at it from another viewpoint when you are focused on the current interpretation.

They should be equivalent and have the same results.

ME has done us a good service by asking us all too watch out for the Units we used :- lengths, mass, rates of change etc. It is sound advice as mix-ups do happen.

One thing comes out of the other view. Remember the pendulum rod and bob have Moments of Inertia.

Regards

[Senax]

If you ignore enough members, pretty soon you'll just be commenting with yourself and those that agree with you. What does that sound like?

I'm far too curious to put people on ignore. 😀

[WaltzCee]

He's curious also, Frank. He knows he's deliberately causing this crap. Whether he has
people on ignore or not, he definitely reads what other people are writing.

. . . I really appreciate your contributions to the board because with
out it, I would have never thought about the mechanisms in the way you did. I've saved
some of your animations to my drive as well. . . .

Rather than causing all this baloney, why doesn't he share some drawings of how he
imagines MV's wheel to be built. Put some substance into the really appreciate by
reciprocating, contributing. That really is not what he's about, he's a control freak.

I've been meaning to say the idea that Marcello is a troll is beyond absurd. It would be more
believable to say he's an extraterrestrial.

[agor95]

If you ignore enough members, pretty soon you'll just be commenting with yourself and those that agree with you. What does that sound like?

That it I have had enough. I am going to ignore myself :-)

oops

[MrVibrating]

OK just took a look at this and it's just 0.25 J - from a static start, a TRS of '1' accelerates each part to 0.5 rad/s in each direction, and 1 kg-m² at 0.5 rad/s has 0.125 J of KE, so it's 0.25 J in total.

I double-checked this with the sim, and it's the same deal when rotating, ie. the 'no grav' baseline; the motor only does ¼ J of work, and KE rises by that same ¼ J, until the collision dissipates it..


So the ~0.33 J of work being done when gravity's enabled is anomalous, but in the opposite way; it's more than the 0.25 J being dissipated each cycle..

..so i need to look closer at the distributions of momentum and KE being applied by the motor, in relation to its T*a - the most obvious answer seems to be that the rotor is being accelerated more than the pendulum is decelerated - ie. maybe in achieving the 1 rad/s relative speed, the rotor was accelerated by 0.75 rad/s while the pendulum was only decelerated by 0.25 rad/s, or whatever the distribution, but, since KE squares with velocity, the rotor has gained more KE than the pendulum's lost, and so more work has been done by the motor.. maybe?

"work done against gravity" would be another obvious answer, but for the fact that there doesn't appear to be any - the motor impulse simply momentarily decelerates the pendulum, before it continues falling.. it never reverses direction tho, so no GPE has been raised..


Tomorrow i'll have a go at sticking separate KE meters on each part, so that their respective changes in KE can be correlated (or not!) with the motor T*a..

..for now, it's still a straight-up headfuck - if the motor's doing 0.33 J of work each cycle, and the collision's dissipating 0.25 J.. where the fuck does this 0.4744 J KE rise come from? IE. how does 0.33 - 0.25 = 0.4744 ?

Both input integrals match to four digits on the first cycle - IIRC it's ~0.33 J of work gets done; A split-second later the brakes lock the two parts back together.. The system then coasts the weight back up to 12 o' clock TDC, arriving with a 0.4744 J KE gain..!? No change in system GPE, 0.33 J input and yet there's now 0.4774 J of KE plus 0.25 J of heat!? How the hell does 0.33 J of energy perform 0.7244 J of work? 2.2x unity..? And it only happens in the gravitating example - not when gravity's off..

..again, if this IS real then there's only one phenomenon that can cause it - an effective N3 violation..