The Cake Device

[agor95]

This is a new post copied from Leafy's thread; thus helping focus in both.

I have this notion [egg] I would like to put forward into the [nest] of this forum.
Sorry it's not as well baked as I would like it to be; for others too digest.

Behind the muslin cloth of a vertical wheel like device is a dense 8 segment cake!
It could be a flywheel but it's really dense cake.

After pushing it into clockwise rotation with two fingers. And not like that!

The [East] segment slides just a bit out and stops. There is some really cunning latches here. This is a little down sliding and a little C.F. sliding.

As this happens the wheel rotates at the same rate.
However the OB causes the wheel to speed up and the Conservation of Annual Momentum slows the wheel down. These balance out.

That happens as each segment reaches the [East] position
until they are all at this new stop and the wheel is balanced again.

Then it happens all over again with each segment moving to the next stop.

The segments are sliding along a radial support rod.
Also each segment is counter spring with a [leaf] Stork Bill return spring component.

So were does that leave us. Well the icing on the cake is all segments are at the outer
edge and the wheel is rotating at the initial rate.

However the Moment Of Inertia has gone up!

Now place a load on the axle to lift a bucket up with stones etc.

The rotation reduces and the segment can be sprung back to the center in stages on the [West] rod. This will keep the wheel rotating at the slower rate.

Sorry again lots of math's and illustration required; life is short.

All the Best

[agor95]

Hi Fletcher

In a way we do the same thing now. How many times have you heard the phrase :-
'Wait a minute the computer is thinking".

What I proposed in my last post is written in the same form I suppose.

The slight push against a lower inertia to rotation being increased using
gravity. Then a counter load [friction or otherwise] finding a higher inertia
resistance than expected.

Then release the load and then the wheel builds up it's higher M.O.I. and repeat.

In effect the variable load is the method to reset the device.

All the Best

[agor95]

That is one interpretation. However the delay was not in the falling of a weight.

The waiting was related to the movement after several rotations for the masses
to slide from the center to the rim as described.

The proposed 'cake device' has no intentional features in common with your octagon device
except '8' of cause.

The main concept here is the use of gravity to increase the M.O.I.
Then use the variable load to decrease the M.O.I back.

I believe the term "excess impetus" might be used.

Cheers

[Georg Künstler]

agor95 wrote:

The waiting was related to the movement after several rotations for the masses
to slide from the center to the rim as described.

It is not necessary to wait several rotations.
One wrong step repeating is enough.
45 degrees is the way for the first impact and that is enough.

When you follow the eyewitnesses then you see that the wheel was self accelerating after the first impact/fall.

We will see with which cake device you will come up.

[agor95]

Thanks; I will bake it a bit more too make it digestible.

The notion does not have any impacts.

I am using the term "excess impetus" to mean resistance to change.

So trying to slow the rotation is harder than speeding it up.
This is due too more inertia than is apparent from outside of the wheel.

P.S. I try and keep away from impacts they do not sim well.

Cheers

[agor95]

This is a stylized presentation of 'The Cake'.

The red sphere is the segments.
The rod and hub are yellow.

The cake is a cloth covering.

cheers

[agor95]

Any members who would like too contribute with the mathematics and formulas.
You are more than welcome too access the support site.

Just let me know.

All the Best

[agor95]

The demo is a little simple, but it is a start on the basic framework.

https://steampunks.ddns.net/thecake.html

There are some points to look out for:-

The Cake [aka The frame] in this case the segments start flying out at 45 degrees.
Therefore there is a minimum rotation rate. This is required to act against Ag + As.
[Those are Acceleration due to gravity and the return Spring]

The distance a segment can move out is restricted. As the segment's velocity is required to increase and the only source of increased velocity is Ag. [Or is that not true?]

The maximum rate of the device is restricted by the rate a segment falls. [Or is that not true?]

You should notice after half of the segments fly out the next segment to act at 45 degrees does so with a greater distance than it's opposite segment.

All the Best

[agor95]

Hi All

I have extended the demo time, exaggerated the outward movements and placed a temporary sight guide.

Just use the URL I have supplied.

When the web page looks different to the image below, reload the page <F5>.

P.S. Use the Run tick box to start/stop the demo too check the wheel is Over Balanced [OB]

All the Best

[agor95]

Hi All

Those of you that have run the demo.

We all know this is an unrealistic demo at this time.

However with time further refinements should result in a more realistic example.

Each mass is a 5 cm radius sphere and step in 10 cm stages.

The mass of a steel solid sphere of this size is 3.1 kg approx.

Using that, hopefully the math's is correct, we start with 0.218 J of rotational
kinetic energy and finish with 10.66 J.
Based on the velocity of 13.25 cm/s to start and
92.75 cm/s to finish.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Agor95,

I see now that you use a step function to increase the radius of the masses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Step_function

This stepfunction will work with the correct timing of the steps.
A clever idea. Not manageable for Bessler in his time.

When I see it correct, the centrifugal force will lift one weight after the other at 12 o'clock.
When the 12 o'clock weight is then at 6 o'clock it will produce a counter force.

To overcome the back torque, the next 4 weights have to lifted twice the way up.

A pulsating construction.

[agor95]

Hi Georg Künstler

I am using this step movement as a temporary place holder.

The idea is too remove it with a more natural spiral out where the conservation rules are applied.

When doing this initial demo, I started with the step out each complete turn.
Then I realised, there was a need to do this every half rotation.

I found stopping the demo at each 45 degrees allowed a check to be done.
The back torque has to be prevented.

I am looking at the flailing out motion. The more rapid the rotation the closer to [N] North it will start.

The segments are free too move in the [NE] North-East quarter to the next stop.
When they start is all to do with rotation rate.

There is another stop from [NE] to [E] East.

When thinking about this the idea of automaton came to mind.
There are exceptional devices create to do more complex tasks then this gating process.

Not manageable for Bessler in his time

Let see were this study goes and hopefully we can bring it back to Bessler's time construction.

Vielen Dank for confirming the demo is operational.

P.S. I would appreciate any other confirmations.