I will do it George, but first to facilitate and setup the transaction I will need a small nominal fee of $220,000 US deposited by Bitcoin. PM me for more details.Additionally, none of us are going to pay you one million dollars for you to do it.
A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater than 1
Moderator: scott
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
Tarsier79:
What goes around, comes around.
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
I haven't got any bitcoins, do you accept gift vouchers?
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
THE TEXT BELOW IS FORBIDDEN FOR READING BY THOSE, WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH ARITHMETIC!
=============================================================================
Please consider CAREFULLY and THOROUGHLY the link below.
https://www.fuelcellstore.com/electrolyzer-65-e106
The link above describes a PEM electrolyzer and its operating characteristics. Three of them (most important ones) are given below for your convenience.
Power Consumption: 16 Watts at 4.0 VDC
Permissible Operating Voltage: 0 - 4 VDC
Permissible Operating Current: 0 - 4.4 A
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let us consider two examples and compare them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) EXAMPLE 1. A standard copper wire is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltage of the DC source is equal to 4 VDC. The copper wire consumes 16 Watts at 4 VDC within a period of 1000 seconds. And from here we can easily calculate (a) current I, which flows through the copper wire, (b) Ohmic resistance R of the copper wire, (c) electric energy E, which is generated by the DC source and (d) Joule's heat Q, which is generated by the copper wire. Simple arithmetic shows that I = 4 A (an ammeter would register a current of 4 A), R = 1 Ohm (an ohmmeter would register an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm), E = 16000 J and Q = 16000 J. Therefore efficiency of the copper wire (if considered as a Joule's heater only) is given by the equalities Q/E = 1 and 16000 J/16000 J = 1, respectively.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) EXAMPLE 2. The above described PEM electrolyzer is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltage of the DC source is equal to 4 VDC. The above described PEM electrolyzer consumes 16 Watts at 4 VDC within a period of 1000 seconds. And from here we can easily calculate (a) current I, which flows through the above described PEM electrolyzer , (b) Ohmic resistance R of the above described PEM electrolyzer, (c) electric energy E, which is generated by the DC source and (d) Joule's heat Q, which is generated by the above described PEM electrolyzer. Simple arithmetic shows that I = 4 A (an ammeter would register a current of 4 A), R = 1 Ohm (an ohmmeter would register an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm), E = 16000 J and Q = 16000 J. Therefore efficiency of the above described PEM electrolyzer (if considered as a Joule's heater only) is given by the equalities Q/E = 1 and 16000 J/16000 J = 1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) In addition however AS A SIDE EFFECT (AS A BY-PRODUCT) the above described PEM electrolyzer releases a certain amount of hydrogen, which if burned/exploded, generates an additional heat H. Therefore the correct efficiency of the above described PEM electrolyzer (if considered as a heater) is given by the inequalities (Q + H)/E > 1 and (16000 J + H)/16000 J > 1, respectively.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) Experimental data (Power Consumption: 16 Watts at 4.0 VDC), guaranteed by the manufacturer, and some simple arithmetic. One and same approach, but different final results.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5) The text above unambiguously leads us back to our first post of Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:07.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW MUCH TIME WILL IT TAKE FOR SIMPLE OBVIOUS TRUTH TO WIN PUBLIC RECOGNITION?
=============================================================================
Please consider CAREFULLY and THOROUGHLY the link below.
https://www.fuelcellstore.com/electrolyzer-65-e106
The link above describes a PEM electrolyzer and its operating characteristics. Three of them (most important ones) are given below for your convenience.
Power Consumption: 16 Watts at 4.0 VDC
Permissible Operating Voltage: 0 - 4 VDC
Permissible Operating Current: 0 - 4.4 A
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let us consider two examples and compare them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) EXAMPLE 1. A standard copper wire is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltage of the DC source is equal to 4 VDC. The copper wire consumes 16 Watts at 4 VDC within a period of 1000 seconds. And from here we can easily calculate (a) current I, which flows through the copper wire, (b) Ohmic resistance R of the copper wire, (c) electric energy E, which is generated by the DC source and (d) Joule's heat Q, which is generated by the copper wire. Simple arithmetic shows that I = 4 A (an ammeter would register a current of 4 A), R = 1 Ohm (an ohmmeter would register an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm), E = 16000 J and Q = 16000 J. Therefore efficiency of the copper wire (if considered as a Joule's heater only) is given by the equalities Q/E = 1 and 16000 J/16000 J = 1, respectively.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) EXAMPLE 2. The above described PEM electrolyzer is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltage of the DC source is equal to 4 VDC. The above described PEM electrolyzer consumes 16 Watts at 4 VDC within a period of 1000 seconds. And from here we can easily calculate (a) current I, which flows through the above described PEM electrolyzer , (b) Ohmic resistance R of the above described PEM electrolyzer, (c) electric energy E, which is generated by the DC source and (d) Joule's heat Q, which is generated by the above described PEM electrolyzer. Simple arithmetic shows that I = 4 A (an ammeter would register a current of 4 A), R = 1 Ohm (an ohmmeter would register an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm), E = 16000 J and Q = 16000 J. Therefore efficiency of the above described PEM electrolyzer (if considered as a Joule's heater only) is given by the equalities Q/E = 1 and 16000 J/16000 J = 1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) In addition however AS A SIDE EFFECT (AS A BY-PRODUCT) the above described PEM electrolyzer releases a certain amount of hydrogen, which if burned/exploded, generates an additional heat H. Therefore the correct efficiency of the above described PEM electrolyzer (if considered as a heater) is given by the inequalities (Q + H)/E > 1 and (16000 J + H)/16000 J > 1, respectively.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) Experimental data (Power Consumption: 16 Watts at 4.0 VDC), guaranteed by the manufacturer, and some simple arithmetic. One and same approach, but different final results.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5) The text above unambiguously leads us back to our first post of Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:07.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW MUCH TIME WILL IT TAKE FOR SIMPLE OBVIOUS TRUTH TO WIN PUBLIC RECOGNITION?
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
At last i think i have finally undertood what you mean, it should work too.
Maybe to help us understand better, you should make a sim, so that it becomes more clear. Algadoo should do it nicely.
A prototype with playdough would be even better.
Maybe to help us understand better, you should make a sim, so that it becomes more clear. Algadoo should do it nicely.
A prototype with playdough would be even better.
-
MrTim
- Aficionado
- Posts: 923
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:05 pm
- Location: "Excellent!" Besslerwheel.com's C. Montgomery Burns
- Contact:
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
How much energy does it take to ignite the hydrogen? Where does it come from? Where does it go? Why isn't it included in your calculations?3) In addition however AS A SIDE EFFECT (AS A BY-PRODUCT) the above described PEM electrolyzer releases a certain amount of hydrogen, which if burned/exploded, generates an additional heat H. Therefore the correct efficiency of the above described PEM electrolyzer (if considered as a heater) is given by the inequalities (Q + H)/E > 1 and (16000 J + H)/16000 J > 1, respectively.
(If you say "none", then maybe you have discovered cold fusion. Is that what you are really claiming...? ;-)
"....the mechanism is so simple that even a wheel may be too small to contain it...."
"Sometimes the harder you look the better it hides." - Dilbert's garbageman
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
I just boiled my kettle. I was going to try to turn it off half way through, but I was afraid it would go into a positive feedback loop and create a black hole in my kitchen. It is a scary world we live in. Maybe it only works if the Kettle is on a friction-less ramp?
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
I'll have a coffee, with 2 sugers.
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
Of cause you could save the world with your kettle.
Just produce some H2 O2 enriched water. Make sure you have a spherical kettle.
Then pump it with ultrasound.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence
Good Luck
Just produce some H2 O2 enriched water. Make sure you have a spherical kettle.
Then pump it with ultrasound.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence
Good Luck
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
Re: re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency great
Not advisable in the Netherlands...Tarsier79 wrote:I just boiled my kettle. I was going to try to turn it off half way through, but I was afraid it would go into a positive feedback loop and create a black hole in my kitchen. It is a scary world we live in. Maybe it only works if the Kettle is on a friction-less ramp?
(Translate "ramp" from Dutch to English)
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
Read and consider carefully and thoroughly our last post again.
---------------------------------------------
The copper wire behaves just like the PEM electrolyzer, if they both are considered as Joule's heaters only. In addition however the PEM electrolyzer releases as a by-product a certain amount of hydrogen, which if burned/exploded, generates a portion of additional heat. Simple and clear.
---------------------------------------------
How much time will it take for a simple obvious truth to win public recognition?
--------------------------------------------
Isn't there at least one BRAVE member of this forum, who dares to accept the simple obvious fact that any standard water-splitting electrolyzer, if considered as a heater, has efficiency bigger than 1?
---------------------------------------------
The copper wire behaves just like the PEM electrolyzer, if they both are considered as Joule's heaters only. In addition however the PEM electrolyzer releases as a by-product a certain amount of hydrogen, which if burned/exploded, generates a portion of additional heat. Simple and clear.
---------------------------------------------
How much time will it take for a simple obvious truth to win public recognition?
--------------------------------------------
Isn't there at least one BRAVE member of this forum, who dares to accept the simple obvious fact that any standard water-splitting electrolyzer, if considered as a heater, has efficiency bigger than 1?
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
I would like to know how much time will it take for a simple obvious truth to win your recognition.
You are not getting what you hoped for, from this forum.
Trying to change the forum, is only one way of adressing the problem.
Maybe you should try other ways.
You are not getting what you hoped for, from this forum.
Trying to change the forum, is only one way of adressing the problem.
Maybe you should try other ways.
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
Yep. Build it yourself. Design a test rig to measure input and output. Test it and show a gain.
Give me a million dollars and I will gladly do it for you.
Give me a million dollars and I will gladly do it for you.
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
Please refer to our previous post, which describes the PEM electrolyzer.
--------------------------------
1) A standard copper wire is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the copper wire.
Question 1: What is the value of the Joule's heat, generated by the copper wire?
Answer 1: The Joule's heat, generated by the copper wire, is just equal to 16000 J.
Question 2: Is it necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J?
Answer 2: No, it is not necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J. The latter is accepted to be true without any doubt by any electric engineer in the world.
--------------------------------
2) The PEM electrolyzer is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the PEM electrolyzer.
Question 1: What is the value of the Joule's heat, generated by the PEM electrolyzer?
Answer 1: The Joule's heat, generated by the PEM electrolyzer, is just equal to 16000 J.
Question 2: Is it necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J?
Answer 2: No, it is not necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J. The latter is accepted to be true without any doubt by any electric engineer in the world.
--------------------------------
In one word, in this particular case the copper wire and the PEM electrolyzer are absolutely identical and equivalent, if both are considered as Joule's heaters only. As a generator of Joule's heat only, the PEM electrolyzer behaves just like the copper wire. Simple and clear.
--------------------------------
Do you accept the validity of the above considerations?
--------------------------------
1) A standard copper wire is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the copper wire.
Question 1: What is the value of the Joule's heat, generated by the copper wire?
Answer 1: The Joule's heat, generated by the copper wire, is just equal to 16000 J.
Question 2: Is it necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J?
Answer 2: No, it is not necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J. The latter is accepted to be true without any doubt by any electric engineer in the world.
--------------------------------
2) The PEM electrolyzer is connected to a standard DC source thus forming a circuit. The voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the PEM electrolyzer.
Question 1: What is the value of the Joule's heat, generated by the PEM electrolyzer?
Answer 1: The Joule's heat, generated by the PEM electrolyzer, is just equal to 16000 J.
Question 2: Is it necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J?
Answer 2: No, it is not necessary to use a calorimeter for measuring this Joule's heat of 16000 J. The latter is accepted to be true without any doubt by any electric engineer in the world.
--------------------------------
In one word, in this particular case the copper wire and the PEM electrolyzer are absolutely identical and equivalent, if both are considered as Joule's heaters only. As a generator of Joule's heat only, the PEM electrolyzer behaves just like the copper wire. Simple and clear.
--------------------------------
Do you accept the validity of the above considerations?
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
We have all seen your arguments. Repeating them over and over in a different order won't convince your audience.
If you were a magician, everyone in the room can see the hanky up your sleeve.
If this was a high school debating team, you would score an D. The education system here has gone soft and they try to pass everyone so their stats appear better.
If you were a magician, everyone in the room can see the hanky up your sleeve.
If this was a high school debating team, you would score an D. The education system here has gone soft and they try to pass everyone so their stats appear better.
re: A simple electric heater, which has efficiency greater t
To Tarsier79.
-------------------------------
Let us not deal with these members of this forum who, according to your opinion, are not qualified enough. But you pretend to be a top-expert in electric engineering. So read carefully and thoroughly items 1 and 2 below and then answer the question in item 3 below.
------------------------------
1) It is perfectly valid for the copper wire circuit that (a) the voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, (b) the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, (c) the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, (d) the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and (e) the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the copper wire.
-------------------------------
2) It is perfectly valid for the PEM electrolyzer circuit that (a) the voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, (b) the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, (c) the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, (d) the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and (e) the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the PEM electrolyzer.
-------------------------------
3) What is the difference between previous items 1 and 2?
-------------------------------
Let us not deal with these members of this forum who, according to your opinion, are not qualified enough. But you pretend to be a top-expert in electric engineering. So read carefully and thoroughly items 1 and 2 below and then answer the question in item 3 below.
------------------------------
1) It is perfectly valid for the copper wire circuit that (a) the voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, (b) the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, (c) the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, (d) the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and (e) the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the copper wire.
-------------------------------
2) It is perfectly valid for the PEM electrolyzer circuit that (a) the voltmeter registers a voltage of 4VDC, (b) the watt-meter registers a power of 16 Watts, (c) the ammeter registers a current of 4 A, (d) the ohmmeter registers an Ohmic resistance of 1 Ohm and (e) the clock registers a period of 1000 seconds, within which a current of 4 A flows through the PEM electrolyzer.
-------------------------------
3) What is the difference between previous items 1 and 2?