How many principles did Bessler have?

[Georg Künstler]

Tarsier79 wrote:

George, what did you actually patent? a synchronous pendulum mechanism?

I have patented a synchronous pendulum mechanism.

This function was necessary for the revolving of the wheel and does not allow a back swing to the same position.

[WaltzCee]

• I can get the power to a perfectly calculated degree, multiplied up even as
  much as fourfold.

Thank you Fletcher. This is thought provoking.


Eta:
10/3/2021
This is so cool one can edit their posts no matter how old.

[WaltzCee]

Does anyone know where Bessler said his mechanism would throw
Wagner's math out the window?

Something like that.

XXXIII (b) Wagner's childish calculation, of which he, not I,
should be thoroughly ashamed.

At this point Wagner seeks to correct a point made by my patron.

The point concerns the power of my machines. Wagner
calculates the total power of these three wheels, and says that
the figure given should be reduced considerably - so much so, in
fact, that good Master Orffyreus, the great mathematician, should
be thoroughly ashamed of himself! Ashamed also that I,
Orffyreus, did not force my patron to write the correct figure.
Listen, Wagner, I'm not your slave! Who is right? You're the one
who calculates badly! So I'm to be excused, having done nothing
wrong that reflects on my patron. Please note carefully these
facts:-

If I were to place, next to a 12-Ell wheel, one of 6-Ells, then, if I
wanted to, I could cause the smaller one to revolve with more
force and useful power than the large one. I can, in fact, make 2,
or 3, or even more, wheels all revolving on the same axis.
Further, I make my machines in such a way that, big or small, I
can make the resulting power small or big as I choose. I can get
the power to a perfectly calculated degree, multiplied up even as
much as fourfold. If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in the
machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself
at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys
and weights, the machine can revolve much faster, and throw
Wagner's calculations clean out of the window!

Thank you again Fletcher and a major hat tip to John Collins for all the heavy lifting he
did with his various publications. If not for him what would we be discussing today?

Thank you John.
All roads that lead to Bessler at times pass thru your amazing efforts.

Most calculations factor in time. If a prime mover can alter time (stretch or compress it)
that might be the beginning of the design of a force multiplier.

• I suppose any Bessler clue alluding to time manipulation is true.
  Up in a flash, etc.

With that force multiplier (factor of 4?) one might be able to bull dog gravity and create
some energy to cause the whole ball of wax to keep rolling.

Although this doesn't disprove N3 it renders it impotent.

[John Collins]

Thank you Walt, it’s nice to receive kind acknowledgement for my work. I did it for my own curiosity as well as to help all you guys, hopefully it will bring forth fruit one day soon.

JC

[Fletcher]

FWIW .. for anyone serious about researching Bessler's PM Principle, his machines, and his story, I highly recommend John Collins books.

I have both the hard copy (except for GB) and the digital versions for all of them. Very reasonable charge imo. They are invaluable imo.

My original hard copies are full of my margin notes over the years, and I still use them extensively.

However, I find the digital versions are orders of magnitude more useful to me. They are my go-to. I can search them using the edit > find function, and a word to search. I can download paragraphs etc to a word document and group things together etc, and organise them. In Word I can highlight, underline, change size and script etc, colour, whatever I want to draw attention too.

Most of all I can read the surrounding context and get a clearer feel for what is being said and potential meanings.

Case in point : The wiki clues page is good but not complete imo. I have read other B. remarks etc not included in the wiki page. Furthermore the wiki page does not give any additional context and so things can be misrepresented or misinterpreted, or left out, imo.

Thank you John Collins !

[Tarsier79]

Well Said Fletcher. JMy interest in PM sparked my searh, but JC's books are a big part of the reason I am still searching. At one point, I used to listen to a PDF reader reading JC's books on repeat on the way to work, trying to glean extra clues.

[thx4]

@ Tarsier79

but JC's books are a big part of the reason I am still searching

A big thank you to JC, he gave me the faith to search, but concerning B, I understood later that he didn't want anyone to find the answer while he was alive. So for the clues I am rather sceptical, it is at the same time all and its opposite.

A++

[Fletcher]

Yes .. when this nut is cracked John and John's books will be an important part of the history.

[John Collins]

But when? I’m getting older faster! 😳
But thank you for kind words guys.

JC

[Fletcher]

When we can overcome our mechanical prejudices which hold us back, and learn to think simply enough to see the answer in the cold unemotional light of day John ;7)

Karl said it was easy to understand, and simple to build. Bessler was afraid a buyer would want his money back (it was stupid simple mechanics).

MT has relatively simple lessons, imo ! It must have because it was to be a teaching resource for his school. And his students would have had a range of smarts and abilities, comprehension and rate of uptake of information. They would learn at their own pace or be pulled along by the lesson plan, with some discussion, instruction and direction from B. himself no doubt. The book would be somewhat ordered, a progression of ideas pitched to a common denominator type simple, imo ! The last lessons that brought it all together (from elements that came before) are missing now.

ETA : I know you recently suggested that the MT margin notes might be notes to B. himself (reminders). They don't read that way to me, in general. They look like a first draft of things to discuss amongst those present in a tutorial or reading it on their own. Much as we do.

[MrTim]

But when? I’m getting older faster! 😳

I should have it by the end of September. ;-)
I'm sure I found the one-way wheel last year, but I've finally gotten around to building a test model (just hadn't been in the mood to play with it.)
Though Bessler had two different mechanisms, they both worked to the same principle (I found that at the end of 2019.)
And if it works, yes, the one-way mech is "stupid simple" (I wouldn't pay for it either... ;-)

[Fletcher]

And if it works, yes, the one-way mech is "stupid simple" (I wouldn't pay for it either... ;-)

Most of us can't comprehend how a principle and mech can be so simple that we are let down by it, wouldn't pay for it ;-) - would want our money back disappointed.

That's some eye-opener !

Good luck with the tests Mr Tim !

I want to be disappointed, in a good way, lol.

[MrTim]

The PM principle itself is simple, but behaves in a complicated manner (and it looks really good on paper. ;-) I built a crude mock-up of the one-way mech a while ago, and it (mostly) moved as I had hoped, so I refined it & made patterns. I'm making parts for mechs from those for my test wheel, so... fingers crossed. I don't do computer sims, I can cut & glue balsa much faster... ;-)

And, to be up front with everybody, I will never ask any of you for money. If this works, it will eventually be released, but it will have to be on my timetable. So, patience, please... ;-)

[John Collins]

Go for it Mr Tim, I’m with you on your ‘no money’ intention, it works for me too and removes many complications. Good luck.

JC

[MrTim]

Well, I'd have to charge for the book of how to build it, but nobody would need to buy it with the design out there. ;-)