Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference

[Tarsier79]

Pretty sure they aren't Besslers words. This entire paragraph is pure speculation.

[gravitationallychallenged]

Tarsier79- I believe you are correct. I read that Ramananda, "Dialogues at the Castle of Weissenstein" was written by an Indian psychic who supposedly had some type of a spiritual communication with the dead that he wrote down. The Bible forbids consulting a medium or a witch for advice. I'd rather die without the solution than to die with the solution and lose my soul in the process.

[Robinhood46]

This is not good news,
Thanks Tarsier and GC.
I was a bit doubtful because of the wording in the paragraph, but i put it down to translating difficulties.

John Collins posted this in his blog 17 Feb 2019

12. Children play with heavy clubs among the broken columns.

Is this all we have to work with concerning Bessler's true words regarding kids and clubs? At least to the best of our knowledge.

[Robinhood46]

Glad to be back and able to share some more thoughts and videos.
I'm still struggling with the missing dimension on Algodoo, but i am improving ways of getting around it.
Here i have managed to get the walking smaller weights to swing back, and move the heavier weights which are connected, via swivels, to the wheel/frame.
The heavy weights (red) can be said to wander aimlessly, and take it in turns to apply force to the wheel. They do climb to the top after shooting up toward the centre. The springs which are loaded at the same time as the weights lifted, can be considerably increased, without affecting the climbing of the weight too much. There is still ample force to do the lifting and compressing of the spring. The problem being that when the springs are increased, the weight returns far too early to do any real work turning the wheel. This needs to be overcome by adding additional locking mechanisms, so as to release the weights to shoot up at the desired moment.
The weights of the heavy weights "could" be increased, proportionately to the increase in the spring's tension, if Algodoo was able to cope with the increased weight of the heavy weights, which it can't. The arms need to be considerably increased in density and mass to correctly function.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gYfb_VWA2w&t=11s

[Robinhood46]

The simplicity of this one cannot be denied.
As usual, Algodoo is being a pain in the butt, and will not allow me to run it with the three heavy weights and their mechs.
I have incorporated the AP diagram to show that it corresponds with the radial movement of the spring loaded arms (red). The wheel does have 15 sections. My intention was to "add a few mechanisms" once i got it working with one set. Fat chance.
I couldn't get it to run with the three heavy weights and only one crossbar, because of the need of the light weight to get in behind the next spring loaded arm. It would be technically possible, if the red arm waged it's tail before leaving it's position. Not an easy task with Algodoo.
With the two crossbars, this problem is overcome, as can be seen in the video.
The falling small weights have the greatest leverage possible for the wheel diameter. They can raise a heavy weight and compress a spring with relative ease, when Algodoo is kind enough to function correctly.
The climbing of the heavy weight in the top left quarter isn't too good and the shooting up at the bottom needs a bit of control (lock and latch?). Maybe the spring would suffice in the real world.
I will have a go at building this. Once i have the triangle and the swinging bars working, I'll play with the heavy weights and arm shapes, lengths and positions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFSpjp1aKyI

[Robinhood46]

By changing the heavy weight lifting technic, i managed to get a simulation with the three weights, briefly.
This would correspond more with the peacock's tail opening and closing, if some additional mechs were added. I'm not too happy with the position of the heavy weights, they give me the impression they need to be behind the mechanisms. Maybe this is where some curved arms could come into play.
Although this is far easier for Algodoo to cope with, it still messes about. I need to play with the weights and spring tensions, not to see if PM is possible but to get the simulation to run, because it just can't cope with all the forces in play. Individual mechs can raise heavy weights no probs with strong springs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE385eRMvdo

[Robinhood46]

I am still undecided what to actually build. I built a 7 foot diameter pentagon without a central axis (hamster cage), but now have serious doubts that 5 is an appropriate number of sections, or 10, 15.. multiples of 5. Or if i shouldn't have a central axle.
The simulation of 3 messes about more than 4 or 6. The lighter weight has too far to fall and doesn't always engage on the lock. It only just reaches it because it has started rising the other side.
4 works pretty well, but would probably have the same problem with any increase in speed, unless the weight ratios/positions were sufficient to overcome this. 6 would be less of a problem but the movement of the inner arm, which could activate the heavy weights, where ever they be, has a very limited and rapid movement. 8 would give the correct amount of knocks, but the movement is even more restricted. Maybe 4 one side of the wheel and 4 on the other?
Stork's bills may get a decent movement of the heavy weights, if the fixed swivel is on the swinging see-saw and the spring loaded bearing (in the vid) moves the other swivel? It definitely shoots up and then climbs. The shooting up can be done even at the rim, but then it cannot climb in the top left quarter. It can shoot in at 7.30/8 and back out again at 10/10.30, then climb to the top at it's external position. This doesn't look too good, but the see-saw isn't connected to the wheel/frame during the shooting in, and during the forcing out, it is pushing the wheel in the direction of rotation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1fCtswPdKA

[Robinhood46]

Here is the 4 sectioned wheel doubled up, to show one set of four at the front of the wheel and one set of four at the back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6HNiuwC-vM

[agor95]

Hello Robinhood46

I commend you for your hard work of developing your skills in Algodoo.
Also the ability to present the results of your work on youtube.

We all should strive too round out our skills to cover the aspects required in the Quest.

Regards

[thx4]

Hello Robinhood46,
Certainly the most interesting model for me and would suit me best as a real proto, if you allow it of course.

A++

[Robinhood46]

Thx4,
I'm not too happy with it, if i am honest (This method for Bessler's wheel, not you building a proto).
I don't much like the idea of trying to get the heavy weights to shoot up, from the bottom toward the middle, and then climb toward the rim, in this manner. I can't increase the tension of the springs any considerable amount, without the mechanism no longer functioning. This is, unlike most of my difficulties, not due to Algodoo being a pain. The weights positions determine the swinging, so the see-saw will only swing when the heavy weight is "in" and once the weight starts climbing, it's distance from the centre increases and balances the lighter weight, so it no longer wishes to swing. For the shooting up, at the bottom, the spring needs to be put under tension as well as lifting the weight. I don't think it is doable like this.
What i do like, is the falling of the arm, with the lighter weight, on the descending side. This is something i have been hesitant to try, because of a few details, which i feel are counter intuitive. Bessler also spoke of "the lighter weights swinging back, although this isn't much of a hindrance", or something along those lines.
At present i am trying to make a sim of a method to, maybe, overcoming these details.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQGwPUP1-r4
I haven't decided how to fix the heavy weights to this yet, but i do think it is probably more likely to be this kind of mechanism than the previous video.

If you think it is worth spending your time and your money on any of my models, please feel free to do as you please. I am more than happy to share as much information as i possibly can to help you. If you like, i can even give you a ring and we can communicate in French, i have been here over 30 years and i speak it fluently. Send me a private message with an email address, or phone number, if you would like any more information.
Or just ask here, or on my YouTube channel.

[Robinhood46]

There are a couple of things worth noting here.
If the the green weight on the arm that doesn't swing backwards, was equal to the heavy weight, the other green weight would be doing the unbalancing. The heavy green weight hitting the wheel would cause the knock, give a positive impulse to the wheel, and it's rapid deceleration would cause the opening of the arms. 1:4 ratio, maybe?
The path of the heavy weight is more favourable than it appears, because it transfers the force gravity is applying to it, to the wheel going down to 6 o'clock. It is then accelerated forward, whilst being disconnected from the wheel.

The weight of the mechanisms involved for this movement, in this manner, doesn't give me the impression of being optimal. Maybe a crossbar that spans the whole wheel, the see-saw, with a balancing weight near the lighter weight, and the moving heavy weight on shorter arms fixed to the other end of the see-saw. The rods for creating this would be more balanced, i think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k2x8yRbWYs

[vlmmoa55]

...

[Robinhood46]

Bonjour Vlmmoa55,
Trevor pourrait vous battre, il montrera sa roue fonctionnelle dans quelques jours.
Je ne sais pas qui est le plus susceptible d'avoir un modèle fonctionnel, car je n'ai aucune idée de ce dont vous parlez.
Si vous souhaitez partager vos idées, vous pouvez le faire en français, ce ne serait pas un problème. Je serai plus qu'heureux de créer une simulation ou une animation, afin de montrer clairement ce que vous espérez réaliser.
Salutations.

[WaltzCee]

Une image vaut mille mots.

sometimes.