A little history I didn't know about.

[Fletcher]

Hi Sam .. you take a photo of it and download to your computer. You shouldn't have any trouble if you have downloaded photo's before or have someone help you.

cheers

[Tarsier79]

The rule of leverage applied to this wheel means that in order to lift the weights at 6, that amount of force x distance has to be harvested from somewhere. Does each lever flop sideways down a little and add to the energy budget?

[WaltzCee]

It was a herd of alphabets.

I presume that you somehow made a simulation of this wheel (as per your pic). Neat trick to get the program to show you where the system COM/COG is located as coordinates, in a table format as well as the visual icon. I don't know how to do that so please humour me and explain - cheers. I'd like to be able to do that !

I took a pic of yours with the lap top camera then edited the photo then copied and pasted it into wm2d.

Then I arranged circular masses around the wheel and hit run. They're not as precisely placed as they might be.

It's not a SIM, just calculating sys CoM. A look at your original seemed to put the OB between 4 & 5 o'clock. Any gain before 6 is lost on the up side I think.

Since the wheel has 12 sectors at 30 degrees between this should be ample to complete a reset.

13.

I just noticed something. brb.

[WaltzCee]

Fletcher,

When you measure the sys CoM mouse over the left side of the graph. You can turn off x y or rotation and above those at the arrow you can toggle between 3 options.

I think that wheel might spin ccw. Look at the right. There's an A & a B.

[Fletcher]

My Bad - Yes 13 at 27.7 degs each sector.

Ta - never thought of importing an image and overlaying it with the main weights, to test Sys COM. I usually just eyeball it. May do that tomoz if I have time. And my > Measure > System COM only works for one item. I have to create separate output tables (for every object) and add them together into one output for the single table like you showed. Laborious. I do it if I have to.

Yes, if you click on the Arrow top left of the table it will toggle between presentation options.

And to Tarsier .. they would flop a little on both sides of the wheel. As the pulley slot can't be too tight, etc, so there will be slop.


At this time I still think it shows a CW tendency (yes I see the A & B), just from eyeballing the main weight positions and a quick thought about turning moments. This appears to be confirmed by your Sys COM Walt, between 4 & 5 o'cl. BTW, if you want to manipulate or move out the System COM icon then make the main wts way heavier than the other parts like the background wheel. Like 10kgs for the wts and 0.001 kg for the background carrier wheel for instance.

FWIW when activating a Sys COM output icon and you have objects you don't want to include in the summation then pin them with an > Anchor element. This removes them from the calculation, and the visual placement.

May build a quick and dirty tomoz.

If it does turn CCW I can't see why atm.

[WaltzCee]

And my > Measure > System COM only works for one item.

Do you select

View>System Center of Mass

?

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,

Forget what I said-------------------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

. . .
If it does turn CCW I can't see why atm.

I'll wait to see if any one else has something to add.

I have an air gap router between the lap top with wm2d and the internet.


Did I answer your question about sys CoM table sufficiently?

[Oystein]

When I first saw that 1751 (6 years after Besslers death) my first thought was that this was a serious attempt to crack the Orffyrean code from AP.

I have said before that I believe that Bessler applied a Rosicrucian/Masonic code for more than one reason. One of the reasons is that it leads to the appearance of their at that time secret emblem, the square and compass, and that the square and compass is close to the basic mechanism that was his secret.

When I deduced how to draw the AP Wheel, the geometric support-lines looked something like this (attached below). First starting with the Basic Figures of a Triangle and a Pentagon inside a circle. The basic figure that can be found in the ancient Euclid's Elements and deduced by Gematric codes on the AP page. (Euclid's Elements is also said to contain the basic secret that all Masonry is built upon.)

And guess what, the symbol of 5 and 3, pentagon and a triangle inside a circle is in mystic Masonry, written in Hebrew used as a symbol of Eternal/Perpetual Energy/Life, where the triangle represents the eternal triangular cycle in a circle: Life, Death and Resurrection, seen in plants and all life..and in the story of Jesus etc. Thus 3 and 5, The eternal cycle of life) inside a circle may also represent (In Bessler's case Perpetual Motion within a wheel/circle).

Below are some notes I made that points to a possible "Masonic Code-breaking" approach in 1751.

All in my opinion..

ØR

[Fletcher]

And my > Measure > System COM only works for one item.

Do you select .. View>System Center of Mass ?

Yes, for viewing the System COM icon in the sim. I use > Measure > COM position, or COM velocity, or COM acceleration for individual objects with mass. Nothing there in my program to create an Output Table for the whole of System that is represented by the > view > icon.

Fletcher, Forget what I said-------------------------------Sam

That's OK Sam .. I finally managed to find a pic of what you were describing, by searching back pages of google images until I finally found one. Doesn't give the text tho. So your pic from Ord-Hume is from 1749 Gazetteer publication, and appears CCW, with support legs, and slightly different orientation. The 1751 pic I posted was made as an engraving, presumably from that, turned CW, and the chequers (SB's) simplified, much as I was suggesting could be done.

[Fletcher]

When I first saw that 1751 (6 years after Besslers death) my first thought was that this was a serious attempt to crack the Orffyrean code from AP.

I have said before that I believe that Bessler applied a Rosicrucian/Masonic code for more than one reason. One of the reasons is that it leads to the appearance of their at that time secret emblem, the square and compass, and that the square and compass is close to the basic mechanism that was his secret.

When I deduced how to draw the AP Wheel, the geometric support-lines looked something like this (attached below). First starting with the Basic Figures of a Triangle and a Pentagon inside a circle. The basic figure that can be found in the ancient Euclid's Elements and deduced by Gematric codes on the AP page. (Euclid's Elements is also said to contain the basic secret that all Masonry is built upon.)

And guess what, the symbol of 5 and 3, pentagon and a triangle inside a circle is in mystic Masonry, written in Hebrew used as a symbol of Eternal/Perpetual Energy/Life, where the triangle represents the eternal triangular cycle in a circle: Life, Death and Resurrection, seen in plants and all life..and in the story of Jesus etc. Thus 3 and 5, (The eternal cycle of life) inside a circle may also represent (In Bessler's case Perpetual Motion within a wheel/circle).

Below are some notes I made that points to a possible "Masonic Code-breaking" approach in 1751.

All in my opinion..

ØR1751 PM idea versus Besslers and Masonic Codes.jpg

All in your opinion Oystein ! .. and in my opinion, very well crafted !


To me it feels like a very astute hypothesis, well stitched together, with more than plausible connections I think.

[Sam Peppiatt]

You did it Fletcher, you are amazing!!

No, the picture isn't from the "Gaxetteer", it was described in the "Gazetteer" but the picture is from another publication. They don't say what publication. The SBs have two sections inboard and one larger one out board, of the pivot point. I think, if I understand it right, this would give a theoretical mechanical advantage of 2 to 1, for drawing the weights back into the center----------------------------Sam

[silent]

....square and compass is close to the basic mechanism that was his secret.

Absolutely!

silent

[WaltzCee]

Yes, for viewing the System COM icon in the sim. I use > Measure > COM position, or COM velocity, or COM acceleration for individual objects with mass. Nothing there in my program to create an Output Table for the whole of System that is represented by the > view > icon.

I think we have different versions Fletcher.

[Fletcher]

I still drive my trusty old car too Walt ;7) Call me old fashioned .. but if it ain't broke ...