The ONE WORD that could give it ALL AWAY !

[Fletcher]

Mornin .. as the title suggests it has been bandied about for years that Bessler made a similar succinct statement. To the best of my knowledge I've never been able to track it down. I have asked previously, but it seems to be sentimental folklore rather than fact. Maybe you know where to find it ?

It is intriguing to think about the possibility of just one word revealing all, or putting one on a certain path to a successful runner design. Could just one word actually be THAT inspiringly powerful ?

It may be that things got over paraphrased over the years. Simplified from what Bessler and Karl did publicly say.

To refresh your memories (paraphrased) Karl said to his ministers that the wheel was easy to understand, and simple to build. On another occasion he also said it was so simple a carpenters boy could build it.

Bessler said of his runner that he was concerned a buyer could want his money back after he had sold his wheel to them.

There maybe other statements that fit the bill, that could be included in this thread for reference ?

......................................

So after that brief introduction I'd like to canvass the members here. I think it would be an interesting exercise. And of course I have an ulterior motive.

I have my own views on what THAT word could be, and the important WHY, which I'll discuss later, but for now I'd like a cross-section of your thoughts and your reasoning. Hopefully the exercise and sharing of thoughts can increase our joint mechanical focus (the WHAT), efforts, and directions, and reduce our inevitable distractions and dead ends. Which many including myself have at times made an art form of, lol.

WHAT could that ONE WORD be ? And WHY ?

[Tarsier79]

I am away from my home computer at the moment, so I can't search but I recall reading that.I do not know what document it is in.

[eccentrically1]

AP page 280

But I never changed, never once wavered, because a single word could have betrayed my wondrous achievement."

I’m not sure he meant a single word in the context, I think he meant something like he couldn’t say ANY words.

[Fletcher]

Yes, the context is always important. It reads to me as a general statement of the danger of loose lips and words, rather than a specific problematic word that he must not utter. Nevertheless there must have been word(s) to describe his invention that were near to the mark. Even he, practiced as he was, could not always avoid them, or they slipped into text subconsciously. A positive or negative involuntary bias ?

Here is the entire AP passage (John Collins digital : AP translation of Chapter XXXIV).

English - Mike Senior AP pg 283

XXXIV.
My visitors included supporters from the highest ranks, but with
them too came base parasites. Some pretended that my secrets
were already common knowledge, probably hoping that in this way I
would be tricked into delivering my artistry into their greedy hands.
But I would often answer them back as if I was a mumbling
shepherd. They got no word of truth from me. I got to be very good
at hiding the truth. Sometimes I fooled them with mumbo-jumbo
such as made-up Latin words, and would then clam up tight again.
People would whisper that I had worn myself out with excessive
study. Never did I hear a word of praise, though I was criticised left,
right and centre. But I never changed, never once wavered,
because a single word could have betrayed my wondrous
achievement. So, my visitors, you who come to learn my secrets,
take note that I can hide behind words. I'm well versed in the art of
rhetoric - so keep away. But enough of all this - suffice it to say that
my work has remained intact. Since this book is already growing
too fast, I'll now start writing another text.

Bessler German AP pg 75

XXXIV.
Nun kamen hochge Ehrt’ste Stutzer,
Doch neben diesen auch Schmarutzer:
Man stellte sich, als wßte schon
Man meine Kunstinvention;
Sie dachten, daß ihrer Begierde
Ich flugs die Kunst entdecken würde? x
Dabei ich bald gerade-recht
Ihr rede wie ein Schăfer-Knecht: x
Warum denn je ich mocht’ nicht lügen,
Und Wahrheit hielt’ ich auch verschwiegen,
Gab lieber albre Antwort an,
(Die meisterlich mit Fleiß ich kan.)
Bald schalt ich’s Werk, bald that ich’s schmücken,
Und ließ in mich niemand sich schicken;
Latein sprach ich verkehrt, verdeckt
Als Effekt nannte ich Affect, x
Und weil mir selten aufgeräumet,
War wieder bald mein Maul verleimet;
Man zischelte: Ihr Herren, hört,
Der Mann hat sich über studirt; x
Ja, ja, ich achte im Gehöre
Nicht eben eine Handvoll Ehre;
Ward ich durchzogen her und hin,
Bin ich doch blieben, wer ich bin;
Es hätte meine Wundertaten
Ein Wörtchen können leicht verraten;
Merk’s, der du angekommen bist
Zu lernen, wie’s Werk innen ist;
Merk’s, wenn mein Wort dir nicht wil schmecken,
Ich tu’ jetzt in der Wortkunst stecken; x
Vor diesem aber steckt in mir
Die Rhetoric, drum bleib’ von hier.
Hiervon sei nun genug geschrieben,
Genung, mein Werk ist ehrlich blieben. x
Und da dies Buch zu sehr anwächst,
Schreib’ ich nun einen andern Text.


Ein Wörtchen können leicht verraten;

Here is the Deep-L translation which sometimes tends to read a little better than google translate.

XXXIV.
Now came highly honoured dandies,
But next to them also dandies:
They posed as if they already knew
My artistic invention;
They thought that to their desire
I would quickly discover art? x
Whereby I soon straight-right
To her like a slave-servant: x
Why then ever I did not like to lie,
And truth I did withhold,
Rather gave foolish answer,
(which I am a master of.)
Sometimes I scolded the work, sometimes I adorned it,
And let no man send in me;
Latin I spake amiss, covertly
As effect I called affect, x
And because I seldom cleared up,
My mouth was soon glued again;
One hissed: Gentlemen, listen,
This man hath studied himself over; x
Yes, yes, I respect in hearing
Not even a handful of honour;
If I have been to and fro,
I am yet remained who I am;
My wondrous deeds
A word might easily have betrayed;
Mark thou that art come
To learn how the work is within;
Mark thee, if my word be not to thy taste,
I am now in the art of words; x
But before this in me is
Rhetoric, therefore stay from here.
Enough of this is written,
Enough, my work is honestly stayed. x
And since this book grows too much,
I'll write another text.

The line in isolation translates as ...

One word can easily betray;

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[bluesgtr44]

Here is what I have on that section from AP.

Bin ich doch blieben, wer ich bin;
Es hätte meine Wundertaten
Ein Wörtchen können leicht verraten;
Merk's, der du angekommen bist

bin ich doch blieben, wer ich bin - I stayed who I am

es hatte meine wundertaten - it had my miracles

ein wörtchen können leicht verraten - a word can easily be revealed

Merk's, der du angekommen bist - Notice who you have arrived

The lead into this is where is he talking about how tired he was of answering flippant questions about what made the wheel run. Thus, he would have to basically throw out a bunch of mumbo jumbo with a little latin interface to make it sound credible. This was to avoid even a mere mentioning of anything that would give it all away.

Opinion here! If there was a word I think that it could possibly have been? Whatever the german or latin word for "exponential" may be that word.


Steve

[Leafy]

“Relativity” is my vote

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
For myself; I think the one word that could have given it all away, must be pendulums-------------------------------Sam

[Tarsier79]

I do suspect it is like "a slip of the tongue", not literally one word.

However, he did say that once he found the solution, and built a wheel that "turned a little", he didn't immediately build his working wheel. He also could see why all his other attempts failed.

Perhaps it took some time to work out how to simplify, build or amplify the principle of operation.

It also points to the principle being obviously different so the norm, ie most of MT. You can't just combine some MTs...

[John Collins]

I agree with Tarsier79, I think he just meant a “slip of the tongue” might accidentally reveal more than he wanted or intended. I don’t see how one word could give the game away

JC

[thx4]

"Here is the entire AP passage (John Collins digital : AP translation of Chapter XXXIV).

English - Mike Senior AP pg 283"

It is clear from this text that B has no intention of helping anyone in the text or the sketches...
So apart from whoever found it (so far no one) who could help us? It's only 30 years ago that the world today knows that Bessler existed, thanks to JC. Personally I think that the research at this stage is just beginning, that it is useful to start from scratch, and to remain neutral about B at first.

Bessler said of his runner that he was concerned a buyer could want his money back after he had sold his wheel to them.

This is the killer sentence because it is so implausible, the customer who paid is the only one who has such a machine, how it works he doesn't care...
In this story, there are many grey areas, I think he wanted to pay too much for it compared to the steam machines that were already much more efficient, in short, a marketing error. Hateful towards his fellow men to the point of not saying or divulging anything for more than 20 years... It's paradoxical for a man who seems to be brilliant.
I would put his behaviour on a religious level which is likely, "if god wills god will tell others" but not me. :)
A++

[SHADOW]

Bonjour Fletcher,
Dans le contexte d'une roue, pour moi le mot serait RELAI pour assurer le déséquilibre.
(deux mécanismes indépendants avec masse en bouts de leviers, qui se transfèrent leur surplus d'énergie en fin de travail).
J.B

Hello Fletcher,
In the context of a wheel, for me the word would be RELAY to ensure imbalance.
(two independent mechanisms with mass at the ends of levers, which transfers their surplus energy at the end of the work).

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
The one word that can give it all away, is pendulums. None of you seam to realize it, but that's the reality of it---------------------------Sam

[thx4]

Hi Sam,

A pendulum can only lose energy while swinging, assuming a motor that would give energy back to the pendulum, what would be the use of your pendulum? In any case not a motor, it's quite easy to experiment. :)

A++

[Georg Künstler]

I will agree with Sam,
pendulums, a pendulum with a wandering suspension point will lead to more of force on the suspension point.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi thx4,
How do I get out of this? You're right a tennis ball hanging on a string won't do spit! The pends. mount to the wheel with directional bearings, swing out on the down side, drive the wheel down, release at bottom dead center, (back to balanced), then return to the top. Oddly enough, they do act like a small motor, a small gravity motor. If the wheel makes a complete turn CW, the pend. will make a complete turn CCW. This is over simplified but one pend. acting as a motor, can lift another one up.

Again, it's not just a weight on a string, it's pendulums, one way clutches, cams, cam followers, springs, and a gear or two thrown in for good measure-------------Sam