RH46 wrote:Preoccupied, i don't think it's worth me trying to simulate your idea, but i would be more than happy to make a video answering any specific questions you, or anybody else has, regarding Algodoo, so you can simulate it yourself.
Time to free download Algodoo P ? This looks like quite a simple starter sim build. And you can share files with others with Algodoo.
I don't think RH will mind me saying .. he has come on in leaps and bounds in a short space of time and can now whip thru a sim build in less time than it takes you to make a drawing. With the added bonus you can run the sim.
Fletcher, You are absolutely right "he wont mind". Although I'm not too sure about the "short space in time" bit.
There are tutorials for getting the hang of Algodoo, which were a considerable help, but i couldn't find tutorials for specifics related to making gravity wheels. If i could have asked someone; how do you do "x", and a few hours later there was a video showing me how to do it, things would have gone much quicker, and been less frustrating.
Preoccupied, I often curse Algodoo, because of the missing 3rd dimension. This only becomes a problem when you want to "move" something in the 3rd dimension. You can't "move" something from behind the screen to in front of it, or vice versa, but you can "place" things behind, and in front of each other. They will move perfectly in the two dimension, without interacting with each other, unless you want them to interact, by adding linkages (rods or springs for example). Algodoo will have no problem simulating your design.
It is bit like Algodoo has 2 and a half dimensions. The 3rd dimension exists, and you can do whatever you like in it, as long as what you do in the 3rd dimension, is only 2 dimensional.
If we start a thread, Algodoo tutorials, i will be more than happy to do a short video, specific to any questions (that i can answer). Once the questions and videos, start accumulating, it will then be just a case of finding the appropriate video. I'm sure someone will be abmle to place them and classify them in a way as to make them easily accessible, without the need to rummage through the whole thread, or rely on the search bar that isn't too good.
I have to write a 5000 word paper on my wheel. I think that I'll start by describing why it's impossible to create a perpetual motion machine. Like many attempts to find a perpetual motion machine have been made by trying to shift weights at just the right time to achieve overbalance. This falls in the face of equivalency on both sides of the axle. It typically doesn't work very well. Trying to lift a weight past where it falls is also impossible. There is no leverage that can lift a weight past where it falls. This falls in the face of equivalency of forces going up and down. I don't know why my idea is any better than other perpetual motion machine attempts but it's different. When I saw MT24 the thing that struck me is that there was movement in and out of the center and the center wasn't revealed...
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain
preoccupied wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:51 pm
Where is algodoo?
I have to write a 5000 word paper on my wheel. I think that I'll start by describing why it's impossible to create a perpetual motion machine. Like many attempts to find a perpetual motion machine have been made by trying to shift weights at just the right time to achieve overbalance. This falls in the face of equivalency on both sides of the axle. It typically doesn't work very well. Trying to lift a weight past where it falls is also impossible. There is no leverage that can lift a weight past where it falls. This falls in the face of equivalency of forces going up and down. I don't know why my idea is any better than other perpetual motion machine attempts but it's different. When I saw MT24 the thing that struck me is that there was movement in and out of the center and the center wasn't revealed...
...It immediately came to mind that the connection to the center moving in and out could pull and release a spring. A helical coil spring connected to a pulley could stretch as the levers open on the bottom of the wheel and release when the levers close on the top of the wheel, and if the wheel is moving fast enough will apply force to the left side of the wheel when the levers close and the weights impact the wheel. I think that my idea is different from the impossible perpetual motions machines I mentioned because I transfer some force of gravity on the right side of the wheel and release it on the left side of the wheel using a helical coil spring. It's like trying to balance an equation by subtracting value from the right side of the equal sign and adding it to the left side of the equal sign instead of adding or subtracting the same amount from both sides of the equal sign. It breaks the rules of math therefore it might break the rules of perpetual motion machines being impossible...
I downloaded aldogoo. I wasn't able to figure out how to make a Steel rod. I am able to make a circle, paint a line, make a square and add things to it like axles. But I don't know how to make a rod which I would need to make MT24. I'm new to this. Are you sure that my design doesn't have merit to make a simulation for? I think it's really cool.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain
Preoccupied,
I don't think the question, do i think it is worth making a sim? is relevant. It is the wheel going around in your head that is interesting, not my interpretation of your wheel.
Once you get the hang of the basics, you shouldn't have any difficulty making a sim of your wheel, and then you will be able to make all the adjustments and modifications that you want.
There are plenty of tutorials for beginners on YouTube for getting the hang of the basics. Here is the link to a 5 minute tutorial for making spinners https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw3JuecinMM.
Videos which cover all the different tool functions are worth watching too.
Have fun.
I zoomed out and the paint brush is not as thick. So it can become rods. I would have never figured that out if I didn't figure that out. I started to make a wheel that I can spin using the grab feature.
That's a start.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain
The best way to make the crossbars, rods, levers is to create a square and then modify it with the "scale" tool (the diagonal line with the arrow each end).
If you click right on the axle and go down to "axle" you can then turn it into a motor and select the desired rpm and direction.
A pulley is simply a circle, with an axle.
You need to right click on the circle, once you have created it, and go down to "collision layers", then uncheck "A" and select a different. Do the same with the rope, so that Algodoo will only allow these 2 to interact with each other and not the crossbars and levers.
To attach 2 or more objects together; hold down "control" on your keyboard and select with a left click both pieces (or more) and then right click, go to "geometry actions" and select "glue together".
Because I'm drawing the wheel with this program I realize that the pulleys can be closer to the levers, it doesn't have to be right at the center. So I never needed extra paths to make sure they don't tangle. They never would tangle anyways. But I seem to be having technical difficulties with algodoo.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain
What sort of technical difficulties?
Have you made sure that there aren't any components that have the same "collision layer" that aren't glue together. If this is the case everything flies all over the place when you press play.
If the problems are more related to the programme itself, you may have the same problem i do with a computer not being able to cope with ropes and/or having difficulty with springs.
I put it as A and B and everything stopped flying everywhere but the pulley didn't work. If I try to make it separate A or B it causes everything to fly everywhere. You can't use springs and string too? Are you sure that the program isn't working properly?
From your experiments can you tell me what angle the levers rest at when the levers are open on the right? Because they aren't exactly 90 degrees. Or 0 Degrees or whatever. They have got to be like 13 degrees or something. I want to know because the force acting on the connection to the center applies different force on the weights depending on what angle the levers are. It would be a lot easier if the five newton spring applied five newtons to the weights but it doesn't. I think it's really a mute point though. This perpetual motion machine will work. I just need the math and a 5000 word paper on it.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain
A way to get around "collision layer" difficulties, is to left click and hold, over the top of your wheel to the left and drag to the bottom right, (to selection everything). Once everything selected, click right, "collision layers", uncheck all the layers of everything. Then run the sim and add collision layers to specific components where needed.
I can hang a weight on a string no problems. I can have a weight on 2 strings with 2 springs too, everything works just fine. What i can't do is have a wheel with 15 springs and 15 ropes added to the 142 existing components of the wheel. My pc doesn't like it.
The angle the levers are at when open, affects the timing, of the swinging of the weights, and the distance of the movement caused by the swinging. So the angle depends on how much force you want to apply, how much distance you want the force to be applied and at what moment you want the force to be applied. Playing with additional levers, and/or curved arms, can also affect these factors, it all depends where you want everything to be when the movement occurs. This is why i didn't think it was worth me making a sim of your wheel. You will need to play with many variables, to obtain the desired movement, what you gain with one aspect will be at the cost of what you will be losing with another.
I think that there is a lot of room for error in making a simulation of my wheel and it would still work. The main component is the pulley and springs. You could make some fucked up version of MT24 as long as it's basically still MT24 it would still work. I think you should make a simulation of my wheel. I am not trying to overbalance the wheel. You could make several versions of it trying to make it more efficient, an excessive amount of force comes from the springs.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain
