Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
I'm having 2nd thoughts. I question your motives. I'm concerned that you intend to show that my wheel won't work. You haven't said one good word about. In fact you have stated that it is a failed concept, right? I think that's what you intend to do.

I prefer that you don't do the sim------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

Does your wheel work Sam ?

[SHADOW]

JB
Le principe de Sam est intéressant car il a un certain potentiel.
Le problème se situe au niveaux des bascules, le lien correct entre le bras descendant et l'appuis sur la grenouillère est à concevoir.
Dès que l'on met deux bascules opposées sur la roue, le principe rencontre une contrainte inverse sur le bras horizontal.
J.B

JB
Sam’s principle is interesting because he has some potential.
The problem lies at the level of the scales, the correct link between the down arm and the press on the onesie is to be conceived.
As soon as two opposite tilts are placed on the wheel, the principle meets an inverse constraint on the pivot.
J.B

[Sam Peppiatt]

johannesbender,
I still don't know. I had most of it together, then the rollers started going crooked. Let me back way up. A big problem; was preventing the rollers from rolling backwards. I resolved this by adding a back stop clutch. Unfortunately this made every thing wider, which forced me to make new rings. But, they didn't have an inside shoulder, as the ford break drums did. Without this shoulder, there was nothing to guide the rollers, consequently they failed to run straight.

I can't prove any thing, until I can get it working mechanically------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

I see and understand , good luck.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Thanks!

[Fletcher]

Fletcher,
I'm having 2nd thoughts. I question your motives. I'm concerned that you intend to show that my wheel won't work. You haven't said one good word about. In fact you have stated that it is a failed concept, right? I think that's what you intend to do.

I prefer that you don't do the sim------------------Sam

No problems Sam and I understand a little paranoia .. I thought it was too much of a turn-around for you to want a sim done by me to show you anything in relation to your design, or any workarounds to any problems it might have ..

FYI the sim predicts behaviour based on mathematical expressions of principles of motion - it is entirely independent of me in that regard and "thinks" for itself, and never-ever listens to me - I'm just the pilot and passenger at the same time, going where the plane takes us .. you were, and are, the designer of your wheel and its toggle mechs - that's why we check-in with you for your details ..

However, I think you do trust Shadow and he is obviously competent and willing with Algodoo - therefore it might be best for all of us, but especially you, if he takes over from here ..

I'm looking forward to his sims, and I'll shelve what I've done - perhaps someone else will be willing to build a sim in another program to compare to Shadow's sims to confirm behaviour ..

Good luck ..

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
I think that's best----------Sam

[Fletcher]

Hey Sam .. just for the record - a persons "beliefs" have no bearing or input whatsoever into what a sim predicts - the sim program is totally without emotional prejudice or bias, and can't be influenced positively or negatively by the builders thoughts or beliefs - as long as the sim is well made, and that is down to attention to detail (the designer) and experience of the the "pilot" - the winds blow where the winds will blow - the chips fall where they may fall .. however I do understand that you don't want any chance of unconscious bias from a pilot (me) if a redesign or workarounds become necessary because the sim doesn't emulate the chief designer's (you) mind-sim ..

Shadow will do a good job ..

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
I don't know what to say. I care about this wheel. It doesn't mean any thing to any one else. But, it means every thing to me. I'm just trying to protect it, I guess-------------------Sam

[Fletcher]

I see it as you giving it the best chance of success, and fair enough .. let's see what Shadow comes up with - he seems sympathetic to you finding your answers ..

[johannesbender]

Relatable to feel personally attached to your own designs Sam , i can assure you though that Fletcher would never try to manipulate a sim to produce an unrealistic or unfair outcome , but your build when fixed would show you anyway.

[Sam Peppiatt]

jb'
The total lack of interest baffles me. A year ago now, I found a way to lift the weights back up at little or no cost. No one has any interest in that. I also discovered that the binary rollers are the best way to drive the wheel. Does any one care about that, no. Admittedly, it was still failing because of back torque. However, I figured out a back stop clutch assy., that eliminated the problem. Which was a pivotal point in the concept because, with out it, it would never work. Again no response of any kind. Why? I will go to my grave wondering.

To the sim. It will fail and, I think Fletcher knows that. Aren't things bad enough with out that--------------Sam

Some thing else. I do not understand; all of these views. Where are they coming from? Who's doing it and why? Is it robots? I don't know any thing any more------------------

[Robinhood46]

Sam,
If i was to waste my time, making a list of all the ideas on this forum, over the last decade, where you haven't shown any interest, or your opinion was that it was a failure from the get go, how many ideas do you think there would be on the list?

There are a few reasons for the lack of interest.
Communication, is in my opinion a frequent problem, what you are showing us and what we are seeing are not the same thing. Sometimes it is just a tiny detail that isn't being understood, some obscure aspect of the idea that has an importance.
Not being in the right group of ideas, is another one, i am definitely guilty of this one. Members have already wandered into a corner with their own ideas, and any idea in the other corners, will get very little attention.
Donald Trump syndrome is another reason. This is where a member has an amazingly brilliant idea, it's so incredible that it's hard to believe how amazing and incredible it is, and how wonderful and brilliant the member is for thinking it. The problem is, hundreds if not thousands of other people have been thinking about it for years, if not decades, and it turns out not to be so wonderfully amazing after all, and it is only a "new idea" for the member suffering from the syndrome.

I often have the impression that many members are simply waiting for a runner on a silver plate.
They don't make any effort to help you, or me, or many other members who are sharing their thoughts, trying to make it an "us" thing, as apposed to each for their own. Collectively we have a better chance of finding the solution, but collective work is very difficult because we are humans with all our flaws. Your attitude toward Fletcher is a good example of the problems we must overcome, if we hope to work collectively. Fletcher is showing an interest, and even making an effort to help, but there is something about it you don't like.
Do you want help on a silver plate? I would very much like to give you the answers to all your questions, so that you can find the solution, but I'm afraid i can't do that. It isn't because i don't want to, or because i want it to be me that finds the solution, or because i give a shit about what you said to whoever about whatever last week or the week before, it's because i don't know what your idea needs to become a runner.
Our ideas are not who we are, and criticising, or even attacking each other's ideas should not be taken personnel. We are in a crazy place trying to correct a monumental FU by the scientific community, it will not happen without having some crazy thoughts, without being wrong about a lot of shit, and without coming across as an eccentric fool.
Keep up the good work Sam, someone will one day find the solution, and it will not be someone who isn't looking for it.

[johannesbender]

Sam all i can say is , keep chipping away at cracks , sooner or later the wall opens up and we either learn more or become teachers.